What is the explaination for everything?
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08-02-2014, 11:45 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
More terms for you to look up: burden of proof.

Your friend is saying a god exists (deism or theism, it makes zero difference). The person making a claim in the affirmative is required to present the proof. Atheists don't come along and say, "There is no god." They say, "You claim there's a god, where's your evidence?"

Merely being here is not proof of anything other than we are here. Keep trying.

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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08-02-2014, 11:47 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Nope.

We are not saying that there IS NO GOD.

We are saying that we do not believe the claims.

Same goes for alien abductions, Big Foot, Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy.

That is still a leap of faith then; you don't know whether a God did create the universe or not.

At best there is the assertion on the table, based on what I read here, that God simply "got things started" and then left.

There is no disproof of that.

And what I am saying is that whether you believe there is a God that didn't interact with his creation OR that you believe there is no God those ideas are still acts of faith just like religious people are making their claims about God.

Both sides of the coin operate on the same amount of faith.
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08-02-2014, 11:49 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:45 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Which atheist here has claimed that there is no God? Consider

Me talking; That is the very definition of atheism; later efforts to shift into a Null Hypothesis position is fine but then you would still have to grapple with the question of why.

Some here have asserted that the why isn't important but isn't that saying that you simply don't know the why? What you are asserting is still an article of faith with saying "Everything just is; deal with it."

Same amount of faith.
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08-02-2014, 11:51 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Again, you keep using faith when you have no idea what it means. This is why I told you to look it up. You said it was pushing us off track, but your insistence on using terms ignorantly is what is derailing this conversation. Brush up on your terminology, then hit us with your best educated shot.

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08-02-2014, 11:53 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:44 PM)DLJ Wrote:  The claimant has the burden of proof.

What are her claims?

The more specific the claims, the more evidence is required.

Invalid; from the perspective that even though you claim the Null Hypothesis YOU still need to coalesce around something you believe.

Her point is that you have faith that science will find the answer.

It's still the same amount of faith.

Her faith in God versus your faith that science will eventually find the answer to our existence. If you say "well, I don't need to know why" then how is that not a close minded position?

Isn't open mindedness asking all the questions and not just the how?
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08-02-2014, 11:55 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:51 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Again, you keep using faith when you have no idea what it means. This is why I told you to look it up. You said it was pushing us off track, but your insistence on using terms ignorantly is what is derailing this conversation. Brush up on your terminology, then hit us with your best educated shot.

Here is my operating definition of faith from the dictionary:

Quote:faith:
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
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08-02-2014, 11:58 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
OK, now take your faith definition and apply it to the statements you've made and you'll see you've made zero sense.

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08-02-2014, 11:59 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:49 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Me talking; That is the very definition of atheism; later efforts to shift into a Null Hypothesis position is fine but then you would still have to grapple with the question of why.
Both Oxford Dictionaries and the Catholic Encyclopedia, among others, beg to differ. Attempting to tell us which definition we have to use is futile because "atheism" is a polysemous word.

(08-02-2014 11:49 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Some here have asserted that the why isn't important but isn't that saying that you simply don't know the why? What you are asserting is still an article of faith with saying "Everything just is; deal with it."

Same amount of faith.
Not every atheist is a materialist and a naturalist; some believe in the supernatural (e.g. Luminion), others concede that they don't know why anything exists.

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09-02-2014, 12:00 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 11:58 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  OK, now take your faith definition and apply it to the statements you've made and you'll see you've made zero sense.

No; she makes a faith-based claim that God exists and atheists make either a faith-based claim that God doesn't exist or a faith-based claim that science will find the answer.

Same amount of faith; by the definition in the dictionary.
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09-02-2014, 12:01 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 12:00 AM)fmudd Wrote:  No; she makes a faith-based claim that God exists and atheists make either a faith-based claim that God doesn't exist or a faith-based claim that science will find the answer.
No, that is a false dichotomy. I am an atheist who makes neither of these claims.

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