What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
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01-06-2016, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 01:00 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 12:46 PM)Aliza Wrote:  When I hear Christians try to justify their belief system (a belief system that is incredibly oppressive) with a bible that doesn't effectively back into it's supposed "source text", I think to myself "HOLY FUCKING SHIT, DID I DODGE A BULLET!"

Except this wasn't an example of justifying my belief system, but disputing the claim that Paul never mentions a historical Jesus, or mentions any of his teachings.

And from my experience the only belief system, you know when it comes to christianity, is some sort of fundie evangelicalism, of those who threatened you with hell, etc.. for not believing. Christianity in a larger context than that, seems to be entirely unknown to you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 01:07 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 12:55 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 12:46 PM)Aliza Wrote:  When I hear Christians try to justify their belief system (a belief system that is incredibly oppressive) with a bible that doesn't effectively back into it's supposed "source text", I think to myself "HOLY FUCKING SHIT, DID I DODGE A BULLET!"

Except this wasn't an example of justifying my belief system, but disputing the claim that Paul never mentions a historical Jesus, or mentions any of his teachings.

Jesus was born in human fashion, as a Jew, and had a ministry to the Jews. (Galatians 4:4)

Ministry. How goyishe can you get? Laugh out load

Jesus was a direct descendent of King David. (Romans 1:3)

No, he wasn't. We don't have Jesus's lineage. We only have two conflicting reports about Joseph's lineage. That Talmud depicts Jesus has having been the result of an affair between Mary and a Roman soldier.

Jesus expressly forbid divorce. (1 Cor. 7:10)


Judaism allows it. I guess Jesus didn't know anything about Judaism.

Jesus initiated the Lord's supper and referred to the bread and the cup. (1 Cor. 11:23-25)

I don't know what the Lord's supper is, but I have heard something about a Passover Seder. You can't eat bread during Passover, though. You wouldn't even call it bread. In fact, saying "bread" when referring to a Passover Seder is a dead giveaway that the people who wrote the book didn't know shit about what Jewish people do.

The rest of the things you listed didn't make sense to me. They just seemd like random things that were unrelated to any cause, like "puppies!" "sidewalks!" "ice cream" and "razor blades". I didn't see a correlation.
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01-06-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The rest of the things you listed didn't make sense to me. They just seemd like random things that were unrelated to any cause, like "puppies!" "sidewalks!" "ice cream" and "razor blades". I didn't see a correlation.

Yeah, he does that a lot.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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01-06-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 01:10 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The rest of the things you listed didn't make sense to me. They just seemd like random things that were unrelated to any cause, like "puppies!" "sidewalks!" "ice cream" and "razor blades". I didn't see a correlation.

Yeah, he does that a lot.

Let's be fair, though. In the context of the argument he's addressing (i.e., the mythicist argument that says (a) Jesus never existed, and (b) the "Jesus" referred to by Paul is some mystical, intangible being who doesn't correspond to a real physical person), all of his points are relevant. They show Paul (or at least someone claiming to be Paul) referring to a real, physical Jesus. Now we can ask the further question of whether "Paul" was a real person, but that's another argument. These points are relevant to the argument he's addressing.
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01-06-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 01:14 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:10 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Yeah, he does that a lot.

Let's be fair, though. In the context of the argument he's addressing (i.e., the mythicist argument that says (a) Jesus never existed, and (b) the "Jesus" referred to by Paul is some mystical, intangible being who doesn't correspond to a real physical person), all of his points are relevant. They show Paul (or at least someone claiming to be Paul) referring to a real, physical Jesus. Now we can ask the further question of whether "Paul" was a real person, but that's another argument. These points are relevant to the argument he's addressing.

Ok, I concede that point.

However, he is still using the bible to prove the bible. Under that logic we can trot out a truck full of comic books, novels, movies and other media to prove the existence of Spider-man.

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01-06-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The rest of the things you listed didn't make sense to me.


Of course it wouldn't make sense to you, because the post you're quoting of mine wasn't directed at you, duh. It was addressing another poster who suggested Paul didn't refer to a historical Jesus nor mentioned his teachings.

So I'm not sure why you've attempted to take those comments as related to anything you might have said or suggested.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  That Talmud depicts Jesus has having been the result of an affair between Mary and a Roman soldier.

Naughtius Maximus! Ahahaha. Monty Python you beauties. I didn't realise they were that clued up.




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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-06-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 12:55 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Jesus initiated the Lord's supper and referred to the bread and the cup. (1 Cor. 11:23-25)

Impossible. It's missing from John, and NO JEW would even consider suggesting someone drink blood. An abomination.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-06-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 04:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 12:55 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Jesus initiated the Lord's supper and referred to the bread and the cup. (1 Cor. 11:23-25)

Impossible. It's missing from John, and NO JEW would even consider suggesting someone drink blood. An abomination.

It's strictly and expressly forbidden in the Torah.
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01-06-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 09:34 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 09:14 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  If you take that to its logical conclusion, then you could equally say that George Washington didn't exist "as depicted".

No one is murdering anyone in George Washington's name. The U.S. military. Drinking Beverage
No one is molesting children and raping women in George Washington's name.
No one is collecting tithes and monies to support their own parasitic lifestyles in George Washington's name. U.S. Senators and Representatives. Drinking Beverage
No one is starting wars in George Washington's name. The governement of the U.S. Drinking Beverage
No one is tormenting children with threats of eternal damnation in George Washington's name.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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