What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-06-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 01:25 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The historian Josephus clearly said he existed. It's only later revisionism which is now saying he was mythical.

I don't say he was a god. What I say is he was a prince of one of the feudal dynasties of the region.

Magical? Maybe he knew some magic tricks but I haven't said anything of the sort. I just say that there are at least three writers now writing about an Izates who corresponds in some significant ways with the Jesus character.

No he didn't. Josephus never said he existed. Josephus in fact, repeated the entire mythical history of Israel as fact, now debunked by archaeology. He is totally unreliable.

Maybe, even in your old age, you can learn to think. But I doubt it. More fun to make up shit.

There were no "feudal dynasties", or at least until you prove it, there's no reason to buy your crap.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 01:41 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 01:25 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The historian Josephus clearly said he existed. It's only later revisionism which is now saying he was mythical.

I don't say he was a god. What I say is he was a prince of one of the feudal dynasties of the region.

Magical? Maybe he knew some magic tricks but I haven't said anything of the sort. I just say that there are at least three writers now writing about an Izates who corresponds in some significant ways with the Jesus character.

Most commentators who are not Christian apologists think that the "Jesus" passages in Josephus were clearly interpolated later by Christians. So it's dubious that Josephus said anything about Jesus.

There is no proof of that.

Deal with the issue of whether it is possible in an age where communication was most all verbal,how one goes about inventing a Superman character who is entirely mythical without anyone noting this for nearly 2000 years.

There is no one in the Islamic world who says that Issa was a mythical figure but they say he was a warrior.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 01:57 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 02:07 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
The Armenians adopted Christianity before the Council of Nicea. They were living in the area at the time and would have had oral reports of his existence.

The view of some people here is just a reflection of wishful thinking and revisionism like the attempt to redefine Jesus as having Jewish features when the traditioanal view of him even in this area is that he had red hair. In the Islamic world anyone with red hair is called Issa. How does a purely mythical character whose physical appearance isn't mentioned anywhere become a carrot top?

Trying to debunk Man-God is one thing. Rewriting history purely to suit one's agenda is another. Saying that the entirety of human understanding almost universally that there was a person by that name, whether or not you accept his religion, is wrong simply because there was an earlier myth based on Horus is just juvenile thinking.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 02:00 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 01:52 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Deal with the issue of whether it is possible in an age where communication was most all verbal,how one goes about inventing a Superman character who is entirely mythical without anyone noting this for nearly 2000 years.

Rolleyes I guess Zeus had some basis in reality too then? Mithras? How about Lord Krishna?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
No. Zeus was not ever depicted as being a living man. Zeus lived in the heavens. No human ever went there. The Romans at the end of the Republic had embraced Epicureanism which was a rational,empirical belief system. They were able to distinguish between fact and fiction and it was Julius Caesar who brought back the worship of man-God's since he considered himself to be one.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 01:52 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 01:41 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Most commentators who are not Christian apologists think that the "Jesus" passages in Josephus were clearly interpolated later by Christians. So it's dubious that Josephus said anything about Jesus.

There is no proof of that.

Deal with the issue of whether it is possible in an age where communication was most all verbal,how one goes about inventing a Superman character who is entirely mythical without anyone noting this for nearly 2000 years.

There is no one in the Islamic world who says that Issa was a mythical figure but they say he was a warrior.

There is no "proof" of anything with regard to Jesus. But there is pretty convincing evidence that the Jesus passages in Josephus are not his work.

Anyway, I am not a mythicist, so I have no issue with the rest of your post. I think some historical Jesus probably existed, although I think the Gospels are hugely embellished. The Jesus of the Gospels is basically "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 02:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  No. Zeus was not ever depicted as being a living man. Zeus lived in the heavens. No human ever went there. The Romans at the end of the Republic had embraced Epicureanism which was a rational,empirical belief system. They were able to distinguish between fact and fiction and it was Julius Caesar who brought back the worship of man-Gods since he considered himself to be one.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 02:27 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
The Claudians were all pagans and when Nero died the empire fell into political disarray with a power.struggle to fill the void. There were four Caesars in one year so it is possible that the old Armenian dynasty rose up and this coincides with the Jewish account and Josephus's account of an uprising in which Izates was involved. This predates the New Testament. The Romans won. They controlled the area and what was written and.disseminated and not long after they adopted.Christianity themselves. Christianity is Hellenistic as was.Epicureanism and the New Testament expresses Helenistic ideas and was written in.Greek. It's not bloody rocket science to figure out that the Romans might just have had a.motive to portray a defeated but popular political leader as pro-Roman and peaceful but this requires one to study history and not baseball cards.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2016, 03:49 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 02:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  No. Zeus was not ever depicted as being a living man. Zeus lived in the heavens. No human ever went there. The Romans at the end of the Republic had embraced Epicureanism which was a rational,empirical belief system. They were able to distinguish between fact and fiction and it was Julius Caesar who brought back the worship of man-God's since he considered himself to be one.

Zeus lived on Mt. Olympus, you fucking retard. Not the "heavens". Jesus H. Christ.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
02-06-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 02:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  No. Zeus was not ever depicted as being a living man. Zeus lived in the heavens. No human ever went there. The Romans at the end of the Republic had embraced Epicureanism which was a rational,empirical belief system. They were able to distinguish between fact and fiction and it was Julius Caesar who brought back the worship of man-God's since he considered himself to be one.

Lord Krishna? And Bucky's already pointed out your fail with Zeus. I mean fuck's sake, you seriously asserted that just because the myth of a superman existed, therefore there must have been a man behind the myth? It's like you've never heard of comic books? Christ. And you're the clown yammering on about scholarship.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: