What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
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02-06-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 01:42 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Why would someone studying theology come here? Why would an atheist study theology?

Understanding.
Knowledge.
To ascertain truth or falsehood.
To understand how those with different viewpoints think.
For shits and giggles.

(02-06-2016 01:42 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I find that baffling.

I bet you say that quite often.

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03-06-2016, 07:13 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 09:43 AM)Holle03 Wrote:  I noticed there was some arguments going on about the existence of him, I don't want a debate to happen but generally speaking among atheists is he believed to have exist or to not have? Why do you think he existed or didn't? Cool

My opinion about Jesus is the same as my opinion about Santa Claus. There was an actual person the myth of Santa is based on. He did some great things and probably some bad, who really knows? Did he fly around once a year in a sleigh with 8 reindeer? No, he didn't. Is he still alive today? Again, no he isn't. There were probably thousands of guys going by the name Jesus back in those days. It was a popular name. Probably the myth is based on more than a few using that name, some did some good things and some did some not so good things. Does this mean that any of them had powers? No, I would assume not. Are any of them still around today? Again, that is a big no.
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03-06-2016, 09:16 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(01-06-2016 12:28 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, believing in the mythicist view is not a product of critical thinking, it's a product delusional thinking, it's the mindset of atheists who are willing to favor conclusions that's stretch credulity for the sake of supporting their anti-religious sentiments.
It's increasingly obvious that you have no concept of atheism, or what it means to be an atheist. We don't necessarily hold "anti-religious" sentiments (or at least I don't personally).

Atheism has one sole, singular tenet; that there is no evidence for the existence of God or gods. Nothing more, nothing less. As such, it has no more overarching, real-world significance than saying one doesn't like chocolate—which requires zero evidence in order to be true because it's simply a state of mind (as is atheism).

(And before you ask, an atheist is just as unable to prove that gods don't exist for exactly the same reasons that a theist can't prove that leprechauns don't exist.)

And I'd like you to answer a simple question: If you collapsed at home with a heart attack, what would you do firstly; call for an ambulance, or fall to your knees and pray to Jesus as the son of God? Your answer will make clear whether or not you truly believe in his existence.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-06-2016, 09:59 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2016 10:03 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
Saying that an historical person of whose existence no one doubted existed for 2000 years is mythical is nonsense. The atheistic position is that if he existed he was a human being,not a god.

I am interested in his identity simply because I find the subject interesting. What happens though is that others can't follow the train of thought involved. The moral position in the New testament is reason based, do unto others. It has nothing to do with Jesus being as god. The virgin birth has nothing to do with Christian morality because it is some story told by a woman belonging to the religion Jesus rejected. Resurrection is a concept predating Christianity as well.


Jesus may have been based on a character who is mentioned in Jewish history books. There are a number of theories emerging about this character.

My take is that the New Testament was the product of Hellenistic Judaism aimed at the remnants of the Armenian/egyyptian/Sumerian ruling classes who had been subjugated by Rome and it all came to a head during the latter part of the first century when the Roman empire was collapsing after Nero died.
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03-06-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(02-06-2016 05:19 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 01:42 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Why would someone studying theology come here? Why would an atheist study theology?

Understanding.
Knowledge.
To ascertain truth or falsehood.
To understand how those with different viewpoints think.
For shits and giggles.

(02-06-2016 01:42 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I find that baffling.

I bet you say that quite often.

No, actually I haven't used that expression before.

It seems like a limiting choice in terms.of careers and making money to buy food. most theologians believe in a god and get jobs as preachers. Most universities with theology departments have some religious affiliation and the professors tend to believe in a god.
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03-06-2016, 10:17 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(03-06-2016 09:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The moral position in the New testament is reason based, do unto others.

1 Timothy 6:1-2:
All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved

Colossians 4:1:
Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.

Ephesians 6:5-8:
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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03-06-2016, 11:15 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2016 02:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(03-06-2016 10:09 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 05:19 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Understanding.
Knowledge.
To ascertain truth or falsehood.
To understand how those with different viewpoints think.
For shits and giggles.


I bet you say that quite often.

No, actually I haven't used that expression before.

It seems like a limiting choice in terms.of careers and making money to buy food. most theologians believe in a god and get jobs as preachers. Most universities with theology departments have some religious affiliation and the professors tend to believe in a god.

It's like asking why would anyone study anything. Facepalm
I'm not studying "theology". Just more out-of-touch bullshit. I have no intention of making money with it, (unless I write later). I am in another field, also, which is rather well paid, and there's a third issue with all that that many people here know, but since db is a hit-and-run poster, he can figure it out. And your assertion about professors' tendencies is absolutely false. Where I go, the Divinity School, (with which my program is "tangentially" related) is FULL of non-believers. So ..... it appears the Presumptive Dot Connector is batting at about ZERO today. PDC ... go fuck off.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-06-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(03-06-2016 09:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Saying that an historical person of whose existence no one doubted existed for 2000 years is mythical is nonsense.

Saying that the world isn't flat when no one doubted that it was for thousands of years is nonsense.

Saying that lighting isn't a sign of a god's anger when no one doubted that it was for thousands of years is nonsense.

Saying that humans evolved from earlier hominids when no one doubted creation for thousands of years is nonsense.

Or you can base belief on the evidence instead of tradition.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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03-06-2016, 01:34 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 09:43 AM)Holle03 Wrote:  Why do you think he existed or didn't? Cool

I'm a prophet - I know how this shit works. Jesus was a fabrication.

As to general consensus, Jesus existed in an historical context as a form of apocalyptic preacher of one form or another or an amalgamation of such forms. The problem with all of that?

Jerry Falwell.

Let's suppose ol' Jumping Jerry was the figure in question. Are you gonna become a bride of Jerry? Are you gonna pray to Jerry? When you score that critical touchdown, are you on your knees to Jerry on national television?

I'm gonna go with "no."

If Jesus existed in the context of apocalyptic preacher, he's simply not the Jesus you are looking for.

living word
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03-06-2016, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2016 05:07 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(03-06-2016 01:34 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 09:43 AM)Holle03 Wrote:  Why do you think he existed or didn't? Cool

I'm a prophet - I know how this shit works. Jesus was a fabrication.

As to general consensus, Jesus existed in an historical context as a form of apocalyptic preacher of one form or another or an amalgamation of such forms. The problem with all of that?

Jerry Falwell.

Let's suppose ol' Jumping Jerry was the figure in question. Are you gonna become a bride of Jerry? Are you gonna pray to Jerry? When you score that critical touchdown, are you on your knees to Jerry on national television?

I'm gonna go with "no."

If Jesus existed in the context of apocalyptic preacher, he's simply not the Jesus you are looking for.

Precisely. The question has no practical relevance, at all.
(It is an interesting historical question, which until lately was deemed to be so preposterous, it was never really taken seriously). It's a paradigm shift. Now the question is looked at differently. The supposed "historical" support, turns out to be (as archaeology debunked all the texts of the OT. the NT gets reexamined), built on shifting sand.

Religious or not, believer or not, it's all hooey. Everyone has to discover their Gwynnies and act accordingly. That's all there is. Whether some ancient dude was real or not has no bearing, at all, on decisions and activity today.

It's kinda like learning to ride your bike as a kid. Take off the training wheels. You're on your own.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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