What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
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16-05-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
I think it is highly unlikely.
Historically there is no evidence at all, if you check the story of Jesus birth from the bible historically.

There was a discussion a few years ago here on the forum where we made a combined effort to fact check the story of Jesus' birth from the bible. We checked historically and also by translations / translation errors. Sadly I wasn't able to find it now when I looked for it. Maybe somebody from back then can find it, dunno Big Grin

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16-05-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
Who's that?

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16-05-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 10:12 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I think Jesus is based on a primary person, with lots of other stuff poured into the mix. I do believe that there were Jews who thought he was the messiah, but I would have to imagine that they thought he was the Jewish messiah, not the Christian messiah.

Add to that, all of the Jews depicted in the NT are woefully under educated about Jewish religion and culture -Paul being the most glaring example of poor Jewish education. The other guys probably had a very broad, general understanding of what to expect from the messiah, and legitimately thought Jesus fit the bill.

I'm not so sure Paul existed either, as presented in Acts (well, actually there are at least two Pauline philosophies, so maybe one of them did, but it's all very inconsistent.)
Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today."

Acts claims that he sat at the feet of Gamaliel. A very select group. Yet not one Jew thinks it odd that someone who was educated at the feet of THE most famous Jewish scholar of the time, later rejects what he got there, or even thought it important enough to mention.

Too bizarre for words.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church

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16-05-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
If I write a fantastic story about Abraham Lincoln, giving him different qualities, different behaviors and even saying that he was a vampire hunter, then did I really write about Abraham Lincoln ?

Abraham Lincoln did exist, but my version of him isn't really him. All I'm doing is creating a fictional character and giving that character a non-fictional name.

The person I wrote about doesn't exist, never did, but the name I gave him is tied to a real person who did exist.

In the end, the character of Jesus written about in the bible didn't exist, even if there was someone at the time who had the name Jesus.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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16-05-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 09:43 AM)Holle03 Wrote:  I noticed there was some arguments going on about the existence of him, I don't want a debate to happen but generally speaking among atheists is he believed to have exist or to not have? Why do you think he existed or didn't? Cool
I believe its that he was just Allright

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16-05-2016, 12:36 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2016 12:42 PM by I Am.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 12:18 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If I write a fantastic story about Abraham Lincoln, giving him different qualities, different behaviors and even saying that he was a vampire hunter, then did I really write about Abraham Lincoln ?

Abraham Lincoln did exist, but my version of him isn't really him. All I'm doing is creating a fictional character and giving that character a non-fictional name.

The person I wrote about doesn't exist, never did, but the name I gave him is tied to a real person who did exist.

In the end, the character of Jesus written about in the bible didn't exist, even if there was someone at the time who had the name Jesus.

In 3500 years, 1106 bbe, a week of fasting will precede a great feast, and children dressed as Three of the Four Apostles will joyously sing:



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16-05-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 09:53 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 09:43 AM)Holle03 Wrote:  I noticed there was some arguments going on about the existence of him, I don't want a debate to happen but generally speaking among atheists is he believed to have exist or to not have? Why do you think he existed or didn't? Cool

I know you asked for the opinions of atheists... but... I just feel like throwing in my two-cents.

Jesus seems to be a composite character, probably based loosely on a real person. The Talmud records things about this guy and I generally have trouble believing that Jews would want to say anything about him at all given that Christians would review their texts, burn what they didn't like, and raze Jewish villages because they thought the Jews were "christ killers". Why would the Jews retain something in their Talmud that's going to give them that much grief if they didn't believe it to be true?

A reading of the NT with a comprehensive understanding of Jewish culture in mind reveals how much Christians added to and embellished the stories to appeal to a Roman audience. This is why I think Jesus is basically the Paul Bunyan of his time.

Yes, exactly! The Paul Bunyon of his time. Thumbsup

I've noticed over the years how even family stories, retold over the generations, become more and more elaborate and embellished with each retelling. There might be a small kernel of truth in a story. People aren't interested in mundane stories. They want to hear the fantastic, the amazing, the unusual and a good storyteller knows this.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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16-05-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
It's interesting to see that there seems to be very few people here who subscribe to an ahistoricist view, or to a mythicist view. That they are a minority view even among an audience that would seem to be the most receptive to it. Ahistoricist and mythicist might have to work harder.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-05-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
there was probably a person that served as the basis for jesus like characters throughout history, after all there are several characters throughout ancient literature that fit the basic description of jesus
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16-05-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 12:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 10:12 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I think Jesus is based on a primary person, with lots of other stuff poured into the mix. I do believe that there were Jews who thought he was the messiah, but I would have to imagine that they thought he was the Jewish messiah, not the Christian messiah.

Add to that, all of the Jews depicted in the NT are woefully under educated about Jewish religion and culture -Paul being the most glaring example of poor Jewish education. The other guys probably had a very broad, general understanding of what to expect from the messiah, and legitimately thought Jesus fit the bill.

I'm not so sure Paul existed either, as presented in Acts (well, actually there are at least two Pauline philosophies, so maybe one of them did, but it's all very inconsistent.)
Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today."

Acts claims that he sat at the feet of Gamaliel. A very select group. Yet not one Jew thinks it odd that someone who was educated at the feet of THE most famous Jewish scholar of the time, later rejects what he got there, or even thought it important enough to mention.

Too bizarre for words.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church

Odder, in my opinion, is that Paul (or the person who wrote as Paul) claims to have studied under Gamaliel, but he doesn't display an ability to read, speak or write Hebrew. I don't remember which quote was the dead give away, but he quotes the Hebrew Bible from a known translation error made in the Greek bible. This is like claiming to be a serious math student but being unable to add or subtract.

No -and I mean ZERO- serious Jewish students (not then, and not today) EVER study Torah from a translation. Using a Greek translated bible is a dead give away that this guy is a fake.
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