What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
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16-05-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 12:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm not so sure Paul existed either, as presented in Acts (well, actually there are at least two Pauline philosophies, so maybe one of them did, but it's all very inconsistent.)
Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today."

Acts claims that he sat at the feet of Gamaliel. A very select group. Yet not one Jew thinks it odd that someone who was educated at the feet of THE most famous Jewish scholar of the time, later rejects what he got there, or even thought it important enough to mention.

Too bizarre for words.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church

Odder, in my opinion, is that Paul (or the person who wrote as Paul) claims to have studied under Gamaliel, but he doesn't display an ability to read, speak or write Hebrew. I don't remember which quote was the dead give away, but he quotes the Hebrew Bible from a known translation error made in the Greek bible. This is like claiming to be a serious math student but being unable to add or subtract.

No -and I mean ZERO- serious Jewish students (not then, and not today) EVER study Torah from a translation. Using a Greek translated bible is a dead give away that this guy is a fake.

I believe you referring to the Epistle of Hebrews primarily, while often attribute to Paul, was written by an unknown author, unlikely to have been Paul himself. The author isn't named in the Epistle itself.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-05-2016, 02:43 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2016 02:52 PM by Aliza.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 02:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Odder, in my opinion, is that Paul (or the person who wrote as Paul) claims to have studied under Gamaliel, but he doesn't display an ability to read, speak or write Hebrew. I don't remember which quote was the dead give away, but he quotes the Hebrew Bible from a known translation error made in the Greek bible. This is like claiming to be a serious math student but being unable to add or subtract.

No -and I mean ZERO- serious Jewish students (not then, and not today) EVER study Torah from a translation. Using a Greek translated bible is a dead give away that this guy is a fake.

I believe you referring to the Epistle of Hebrews primarily, while often attribute to Paul, was written by an unknown author, unlikely to have been Paul himself. The author isn't named in the Epistle itself.

So you're telling me that Paul wasn't the writer of Hebrews? Then who the fuck is Paul? Whoever wrote that didn't have even the most rudimentary grasp of Judaism.

Oh, Matthew and Luke are fakes too. I don't know all the books in the NT, but everywhere I that I read screams forgery.
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16-05-2016, 02:48 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 02:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Odder, in my opinion, is that Paul (or the person who wrote as Paul) claims to have studied under Gamaliel, but he doesn't display an ability to read, speak or write Hebrew. I don't remember which quote was the dead give away, but he quotes the Hebrew Bible from a known translation error made in the Greek bible. This is like claiming to be a serious math student but being unable to add or subtract.

No -and I mean ZERO- serious Jewish students (not then, and not today) EVER study Torah from a translation. Using a Greek translated bible is a dead give away that this guy is a fake.

I believe you referring to the Epistle of Hebrews primarily, while often attribute to Paul, was written by an unknown author, unlikely to have been Paul himself. The author isn't named in the Epistle itself.

I am not. I meant what I said. It is widely known that the speakers in Acts named "Paul", have widely different philosophies.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-05-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's interesting to see that there seems to be very few people here who subscribe to an ahistoricist view, or to a mythicist view. That they are a minority view even among an audience that would seem to be the most receptive to it. Ahistoricist and mythicist might have to work harder.

It's not about evangelization and the ad populum fallacy.
The truth is not a popularity contest.
You already lost this argument once.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-05-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 12:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm not so sure Paul existed either, as presented in Acts (well, actually there are at least two Pauline philosophies, so maybe one of them did, but it's all very inconsistent.)
Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today."

Acts claims that he sat at the feet of Gamaliel. A very select group. Yet not one Jew thinks it odd that someone who was educated at the feet of THE most famous Jewish scholar of the time, later rejects what he got there, or even thought it important enough to mention.

Too bizarre for words.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church

Odder, in my opinion, is that Paul (or the person who wrote as Paul) claims to have studied under Gamaliel, but he doesn't display an ability to read, speak or write Hebrew. I don't remember which quote was the dead give away, but he quotes the Hebrew Bible from a known translation error made in the Greek bible. This is like claiming to be a serious math student but being unable to add or subtract.

No -and I mean ZERO- serious Jewish students (not then, and not today) EVER study Torah from a translation. Using a Greek translated bible is a dead give away that this guy is a fake.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/paul.htm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-05-2016, 03:33 PM
What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:43 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I believe you referring to the Epistle of Hebrews primarily, while often attribute to Paul, was written by an unknown author, unlikely to have been Paul himself. The author isn't named in the Epistle itself.

So you're telling me that Paul wasn't the writer of Hebrews? Then who the fuck is Paul? Whoever wrote that didn't have even the most rudimentary grasp of Judaism.

Oh, Matthew and Luke are fakes too. I don't know all the books in the NT, but everywhere I that I read screams forgery.


The writer of Hebrews doesn't even claim to be Paul, it's author is unknown, it's been attributed later on by the Church to Paul, but the style, theological focuses, etc of writing as modern scholar would point out are distinct from the authentic Pauline epistles, making Pauline authorship unlikely.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-05-2016, 03:35 PM
What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 02:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's interesting to see that there seems to be very few people here who subscribe to an ahistoricist view, or to a mythicist view. That they are a minority view even among an audience that would seem to be the most receptive to it. Ahistoricist and mythicist might have to work harder.

It's not about evangelization and the ad populum fallacy.
The truth is not a popularity contest.
You already lost this argument once.

No, but if you can't sell your argument to the audience most receptive to it, than your argument is unlikely to be a good one.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-05-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 03:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 02:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's not about evangelization and the ad populum fallacy.
The truth is not a popularity contest.
You already lost this argument once.

No, but if you can't sell your argument to the audience most receptive to it, than your argument is unlikely to be a good one.

Einstein had a hard time selling relativity. His Nobel prize was explicitly awarded for other things -- no mention of relativity. It was still too controversial. Today it's his claim to fame. The initial resistance to the theory (even among its most receptive audience -- professional physicists) did not mean it wasn't true.
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16-05-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 03:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 02:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's not about evangelization and the ad populum fallacy.
The truth is not a popularity contest.
You already lost this argument once.

No, but if you can't sell your argument to the audience most receptive to it, than your argument is unlikely to be a good one.

Says who ? Is that Tomasia Rule 1 ?
It's " 'then" your argument is likely to etc". More ill stated generalizations and no facts. There is not a shred of evidence that non-believers are more receptive to this subject, than other groups, (or you have presented none). You, for one, have never presented one valid argument, either way.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-05-2016, 04:47 PM
What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(16-05-2016 04:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 03:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, but if you can't sell your argument to the audience most receptive to it, than your argument is unlikely to be a good one.

Says who ? Is that Tomasia Rule 1 ?
It's " 'then" your argument is likely to etc". More ill stated generalizations and no facts. There is not a shred of evidence that non-believers are more receptive to this subject, than other groups, (or you have presented none). You, for one, have never presented one valid argument, either way.

Yes, non-believers are more receptive to arguments unfavorable to religion, than believers, duh. If atheist mythicist and ahistoricist can't even convince their peers, they have little hope in convincing anyone else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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