What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
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23-05-2016, 09:06 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(22-05-2016 09:08 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It's possible to read the New Testament fairly factually as the story ofo a leader of a revolt who had converted to a peaceful religion and challenged the Abrahamic leaders and Rome.

I disagree. There are four gospels. Each gospel disagrees with the others. While some discrepancies could be considered irrelevant, others can not.

For example: Does it really matter whether Peter denied Jesus three times or three times before the cock crowed? Not really.

Does it matter that one gospel features an earthquake and zombie march through Jerusalem? Not mentioned by the other three? Yeah, that's pretty convincing.

Convincing that it's all made up.

(22-05-2016 09:08 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The problem with this however is that the Romans had control of the area so what we now know about the Near East has been edited by them.

Yeah, you would think that an omniscient, omnipotent deity would have thought about that.

Oops.

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23-05-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(23-05-2016 05:58 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(23-05-2016 12:22 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ... by you, of course.

Oh yeah

I don't care what they may say.
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23-05-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(23-05-2016 09:20 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(23-05-2016 05:58 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Oh yeah

I don't care what they may say.

Do you care what they may do?

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23-05-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
I don't even care what they may know, pal.
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23-05-2016, 10:35 AM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2016 10:51 AM by Born Again Pagan.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(17-05-2016 06:02 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 04:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, non-believers are more receptive to arguments unfavorable to religion, than believers, duh. If atheist mythicist and ahistoricist can't even convince their peers, they have little hope in convincing anyone else.

Even if this is true, why does it matter? Does reality somehow flip when a certain critical proportion of people believe it?

You're discussing believability while trying to imply that you're discussing truth.

There is a philosophy that says so, A strange metaphysics that says that the world was flat before Columbus. When enuff people believed it was round it became round. When enuff people believe that Jesus was a God he became a God. Just as valid as some religions. But if you wonder, no I never believed it. The paradigm shifts or some such name.
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23-05-2016, 10:49 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(22-05-2016 09:08 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It's possible to read the New Testament fairly factually as the story ofo a leader of a revolt who had converted to a peaceful religion and challenged the Abrahamic leaders and Rome.

"Render unto Caesar" is a revolt ?

There is nothing in the gospels that leads anyone to think he intended to change anything : "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.' Matthew 5:18

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2456-baptism

dot ........... dot ........... dot

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23-05-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
A historical jesus is no more relevant to xtianity than a historical Thor was to Norse mythology.

I suggest reading Richard Carrier's On the Historicity of Jesus.

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23-05-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(23-05-2016 11:00 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  A historical jesus is no more relevant to xtianity than a historical Thor was to Norse mythology.

Except that the messiah would of had to have been a historical person. It would be quite difficult to understand the NT, early christianity, absent of a historical messiah. his followers already had to deal with his humiliating death, now we have to deal with non-existing one too? In that case perhaps it wasn't a humiliating death, perhaps the creators of this Jesus, clearly saw all the events that transpired as part OT scripture, built their story on these expectations.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-05-2016, 02:16 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2016 02:31 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(23-05-2016 02:06 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-05-2016 11:00 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  A historical jesus is no more relevant to xtianity than a historical Thor was to Norse mythology.

Except that the messiah would of had to have been a historical person. It would be quite difficult to understand the NT, early christianity, absent of a historical messiah. his followers already had to deal with his humiliating death, now we have to deal with non-existing one too? In that case perhaps it wasn't a humiliating death, perhaps the creators of this Jesus, clearly saw all the events that transpired as part OT scripture, built their story on these expectations.

WTF ?
Clearly the opposite is true.
He got NONE of the jobs of a messiah done.
So they made him up.
The messiah was to get the kingdom restored, even the apostles thought so, and asked him about it in Acts.
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-05-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: What is the general opinion on the existence of Jesus?
(23-05-2016 02:06 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  In that case perhaps it wasn't a humiliating death, perhaps the creators of this Jesus, clearly saw all the events that transpired as part OT scripture, built their story on these expectations.

Fixed. This is far more likely.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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