Poll: What's Jesus about?
Son of God, etc
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Total myth, never existed
Based on real people and events to create a religion
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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03-05-2014, 10:33 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2014 10:39 AM by kim.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 09:48 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
kim Wrote:I would consider any information to be subject to reason, assessed according to strict principles of validity by deductive reasoning.

^^That^^ is my answer to your simple question... along with background knowledge to help you understand why I and many people, would process any information or "knowledge".

So you would repent of your sins and renounce them and seek to live a life of self-denial in the service of Jesus Christ?

Your lack of reading comprehension is unfortunate.

I reiterate; provided with any information, I would assess such information and decide by the process of deductive reasoning whether to consider it to be valid "knowledge" by which I might further conduct future reasoning.

Whatever dogma you choose to live by is up to you. Expecting anyone else to choose a similar path would be egotistical and any attempt at manipulation to persuade someone to do so, would be childishly arrogant.

It is no wonder people find it necessary to converse with you as if you were a 6 year old. Drinking Beverage

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03-05-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 07:47 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  And if I were to prove to you that none of the above constitute an inconsistency/contradiction and that the Holy Bible was indeed the record of Gods dealings with man, what would you do with this knowledge?
You can't. But since you're wanting a direct answer to your impossible hypothetical, I'll give you one. Such proof, if it was real proof, would establish that your heinous god is real. So the LAST thing I would do is worship him. I would carry on with my life the same as it is now without any acknowledgement of him as a god. I'd probably be even more motivated to make the best of it since I'd likely be going to hell. I certainly wouldn't be fulfilling your god's narcissistic needs and his own record (as you claim the bible is) clearly establishes that he doesn't take "no" for answer well at all. But I would still have to go with my conscience. I suppose such a powerful being could force me on my knees, but that's what it would take. There's no way I'd worship that beast willingly. No

Is that the answer you were looking for? Drinking Beverage

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03-05-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 10:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You'd think after getting PWNED simultaneously in two debates, Walker would learn to keep his retarded head down... Drinking Beverage

Or at the very least, you'd think he'd understand that if you have to try to force an opponent through leading to a prerequisite conclusion before presenting evidence shows something is very wrong with either that evidence, it's would-be presenter or both.

Or, you know, actually presenting evidence. Not too hard.

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03-05-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 10:33 AM)kim Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 09:48 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So you would repent of your sins and renounce them and seek to live a life of self-denial in the service of Jesus Christ?

Your lack of reading comprehension is unfortunate.

I reiterate; provided with any information, I would assess such information and decide by the process of deductive reasoning whether to consider it to be valid "knowledge" by which I might further conduct future reasoning.

Whatever dogma you choose to live by is up to you. Expecting anyone else to choose a similar path would be egotistical and any attempt at manipulation to persuade someone to do so, would be childishly arrogant.

It is no wonder people find it necessary to converse with you as if you were a 6 year old. Drinking Beverage

You still are not answering the simple question and it seems you are the one who is having difficulty with comprehending what is being written.

Here is the question:

If you, via "deductive reasoning", came to the conclusion that Jesus was and is who He actually claimed to be and that the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the account of God's dealings with men, and that you indeed are a sinner who is in open rebellion against a Holy God in need of a Saviour, what would you do with this knowledge? What would be your response to this?

Do not give me some nonsense about investigating the matter. That is done with. You have already investigated the matter and have reached your conclusions. The matter of investigation is no longer pertinent. You have the evidence, you have the knowledge.

Now, what do you do?
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03-05-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 10:39 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Such proof, if it was real proof, would establish that your heinous god is real. So the LAST thing I would do is worship him. I would carry on with my life the same as it is now without any acknowledgement of him as a god..... I certainly wouldn't be fulfilling your god's narcissistic needs and his own record (as you claim the bible is) clearly establishes that he doesn't take "no" for answer well at all. But I would still have to go with my conscience. I suppose such a powerful being could force me on my knees, but that's what it would take. There's no way I'd worship that beast willingly. No

Is that the answer you were looking for? Drinking Beverage

Yes it was. And it serves only to reinforce my point. For you and many who think like you, evidence is not the issue at all. You just do not like the idea of there being a God who you are morally accountable to.

Those who think like you would be taken much more seriously if you stated your view plainly when talking with Christians instead of trying to hide behind the whole "I can't believe because there is no evidence" piece. It is not that you can't believe, but rather, that you won't believe.

Thank you.Thumbsup
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03-05-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 10:50 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 10:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You'd think after getting PWNED simultaneously in two debates, Walker would learn to keep his retarded head down... Drinking Beverage

Or at the very least, you'd think he'd understand that if you have to try to force an opponent through leading to a prerequisite conclusion before presenting evidence shows something is very wrong with either that evidence, it's would-be presenter or both.

Or, you know, actually presenting evidence. Not too hard.

You still have not answered the question.
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03-05-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 10:27 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Jeremy,

Oh dearie me.

You asked me some questions. What are the inconsistencies in the NT?

Here is a challenge. Get out your bible and a pen and paper and sit down and write out the sequence of events, the times, the people, the things said and the things done and where from the time Mary finds the tomb of Jesus empty in the first of the synoptic gospels.

Write down what each of the four gospels said about the time Mary went, what she found, who she found, who she was with, who she spoke to, what they said, where and when she then saw Jesus, what he said to her, where he was then seen by the disciples and what he told them to do.

I don't mind where this discussion takes us but please don't make such absurd statements about inconsistencies in the NT. The central thesis of Christianity is that Jesus was resurrected. READ the book before you start making silly statements about inconsistencies. Every Christian theologian knows there are inconsistencies and by asking questions like that you show you either haven't read the NT or are prepared to ignore them and carry on regardless, which is just plain insulting to anyone who has actually read the NT and knows even a little bit about the problems these inconsistencies have always presented for Christianity.

No, of course there are intelligent people who are Christians. That isn't the point.

Have you read the Didache? That is a good statement of Christian principles and they are largely just a product of "logic" and "reason", that if , for instance, you love your enemies, you won't have enemies and you will enter a different "realm" where you don't have those kind of anxieties created by being in conflict with other people. Have you ever thought that the ethical principles of Christianity have nothing to do with how the earth was "made". Even if a very big man with some laboratory equipment made everything in seven days, as you seem to think, what has that got to do with prohibitions against stealing and sleeping with your neighbor's wife?

A: Nothing.

If the Bible was in your estimation, without error or inconsistency, and you were convinced it was the Word of God and that Christ was indeed the Messiah, what would you do with this knowledge?

What would be your response to Christ when He says that you are completely dependent upon Him and without Him you can do nothing? That there is nothing good in you but that you are in open rebellion against a Holy God who will judge you for your sins.

What would your response be?

Reverent worship and repentant sorrow at His feet?

Or defiant self-reliance and obstinance?
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03-05-2014, 01:24 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 01:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 10:33 AM)kim Wrote:  Your lack of reading comprehension is unfortunate.

I reiterate; provided with any information, I would assess such information and decide by the process of deductive reasoning whether to consider it to be valid "knowledge" by which I might further conduct future reasoning.

Whatever dogma you choose to live by is up to you. Expecting anyone else to choose a similar path would be egotistical and any attempt at manipulation to persuade someone to do so, would be childishly arrogant.

It is no wonder people find it necessary to converse with you as if you were a 6 year old. Drinking Beverage

You still are not answering the simple question and it seems you are the one who is having difficulty with comprehending what is being written.

Here is the question:

If you, via "deductive reasoning", came to the conclusion that Jesus was and is who He actually claimed to be and that the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the account of God's dealings with men, and that you indeed are a sinner who is in open rebellion against a Holy God in need of a Saviour, what would you do with this knowledge? What would be your response to this?

Do not give me some nonsense about investigating the matter. That is done with. You have already investigated the matter and have reached your conclusions. The matter of investigation is no longer pertinent. You have the evidence, you have the knowledge.

Now, what do you do?

No, that was not the question. She answered the question you actually posed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-05-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 01:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 10:39 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Such proof, if it was real proof, would establish that your heinous god is real. So the LAST thing I would do is worship him. I would carry on with my life the same as it is now without any acknowledgement of him as a god..... I certainly wouldn't be fulfilling your god's narcissistic needs and his own record (as you claim the bible is) clearly establishes that he doesn't take "no" for answer well at all. But I would still have to go with my conscience. I suppose such a powerful being could force me on my knees, but that's what it would take. There's no way I'd worship that beast willingly. No

Is that the answer you were looking for? Drinking Beverage

Yes it was. And it serves only to reinforce my point. For you and many who think like you, evidence is not the issue at all. You just do not like the idea of there being a God who you are morally accountable to.

Those who think like you would be taken much more seriously if you stated your view plainly when talking with Christians instead of trying to hide behind the whole "I can't believe because there is no evidence" piece. It is not that you can't believe, but rather, that you won't believe.

Thank you.Thumbsup

WRONG, its a hypothetical scenario about a fictional charactor, our (my) answers are based only on your parameters. Insert 'Odin' , instead of your God, Jebus or Batman, and the answer would have been the same.

Get real, will ya...... your the one that stacked the deck to get an answer that fits your model. Facepalm

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03-05-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 01:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 10:39 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Such proof, if it was real proof, would establish that your heinous god is real. So the LAST thing I would do is worship him. I would carry on with my life the same as it is now without any acknowledgement of him as a god..... I certainly wouldn't be fulfilling your god's narcissistic needs and his own record (as you claim the bible is) clearly establishes that he doesn't take "no" for answer well at all. But I would still have to go with my conscience. I suppose such a powerful being could force me on my knees, but that's what it would take. There's no way I'd worship that beast willingly. No

Is that the answer you were looking for? Drinking Beverage

Yes it was. And it serves only to reinforce my point. For you and many who think like you, evidence is not the issue at all. You just do not like the idea of there being a God who you are morally accountable to.

Those who think like you would be taken much more seriously if you stated your view plainly when talking with Christians instead of trying to hide behind the whole "I can't believe because there is no evidence" piece. It is not that you can't believe, but rather, that you won't believe.

Thank you.Thumbsup

No, evidence is the reason I do not believe in any gods.

The god described in the Bible is horrific - but that is secondary since I don't believe in any gods.

And do not presume to tell me what I believe about morality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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