Poll: What's Jesus about?
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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03-05-2014, 06:54 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2014 07:02 PM by rampant.a.i..)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 06:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:46 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Okay; that's it.

I have been perfectly happy to play along to see what evidence might eventually rear its head, but fuck it, I'm done.

You have the Onus Probandi on your shoulders and you have failed to meet it. You claimed to have evidence of your assertion which would dispel the Onus from you, but you have not presented it, you have merely created another burden to bear and have made not a single solitary attempt to even acknowledge either of them, let alone fulfil them.
In the stead of presenting the evidence you claimed you have, which given the claim it represents must be something phenomenal and nigh unquestionable under scrutiny, you present nothing more than loaded and leading questions designed to get people to agree to your case before even presenting the evidence. Were there ever to be dishonesty, this case is a fine exemplar.

So, have fun being disingenuous and fallacious, sir, for I shall have no further part in playing such a game.

You did not answer the question.

You do not have to. I know the answer. All I have written has not been for my benefit but for yours. The choice is yours. God gives it to you. That is the beauty of it really. People like you charge God with evil in allowing evil to happen.

What you fail to realize is that when you choose life without God, you necessarily forfeit good for evil. All the pain and suffering in the world people like you charge God with is actually the result of people living according to your mentality.

Forfeit the Highest Good and evil is all you are left with.

Oh, this old "without God there is no good" line of bullshit.

You idiots didn't even get your morality from God. You stole the 10 commandments from the Jews, who absorbed them from the 42 Negative Confessions of the Egyptians, and stole The Golden Rule from culturally accepted morals predating the concept of a Christian God by thousands of years, if not more. You're pious liars and fakirs who claim everything "good" as "coming from Christianity," and pretend none of the bad came from "True Christians".

Funny how Christianity supposedly praises and accepts the highest good, but has still been responsible for some of the worst atrocities in history, ritual torture, murder, slavery, genocide, AIDs epidemics over a continent because of your backwards views on contraception, and a cover-up of decades of child sexual abuse by the largest Christian organization in the world.

If that's not evil, what is?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-05-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 06:54 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You did not answer the question.

You do not have to. I know the answer. All I have written has not been for my benefit but for yours. The choice is yours. God gives it to you. That is the beauty of it really. People like you charge God with evil in allowing evil to happen.

What you fail to realize is that when you choose life without God, you necessarily forfeit good for evil. All the pain and suffering in the world people like you charge God with is actually the result of people living according to your mentality.

Forfeit the Highest Good and evil is all you are left with.

Oh, this old "without God there is no good" line of bullshit.

You idiots didn't even get your morality from God. You stole the 10 commandments from the Jews, who absorbed them from the 42 Negative Confessions of the Egyptians, and stole The Golden Rule from culturally accepted morals predating the concept of a Christian God by thousands of years, if not more. You're pious liars and fakirs who claim everything "good" as "coming from Christianity," and pretend none of the bad came from "True Christians".

Funny how Christianity supposedly praises and accepts the highest good, but has still been responsible for some of the worst atrocities in history, ritual torture, murder, slavery, genocide, AIDs epidemics over a continent because of your backwards views on contraception, and a cover-up of decades of child sexual abuse by the largest Christian organization in the world.

If that's not evil, what is?

I do not really think you as an atheist can justifiably speak about Christians being evil at all, unless it is just a statement of your opinion to which I would reply by saying thanks for sharing it.
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03-05-2014, 07:05 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:04 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:54 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Oh, this old "without God there is no good" line of bullshit.

You idiots didn't even get your morality from God. You stole the 10 commandments from the Jews, who absorbed them from the 42 Negative Confessions of the Egyptians, and stole The Golden Rule from culturally accepted morals predating the concept of a Christian God by thousands of years, if not more. You're pious liars and fakirs who claim everything "good" as "coming from Christianity," and pretend none of the bad came from "True Christians".

Funny how Christianity supposedly praises and accepts the highest good, but has still been responsible for some of the worst atrocities in history, ritual torture, murder, slavery, genocide, AIDs epidemics over a continent because of your backwards views on contraception, and a cover-up of decades of child sexual abuse by the largest Christian organization in the world.

If that's not evil, what is?

I do not really think you as an atheist can speak about evil at all.

Guess my point stands, then, as this isn't coming from an atheist.

You're incapable of responding to the content because you're aware of the evil Christianity has perpetrated on the world in the name of God.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-05-2014, 07:08 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:05 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:04 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not really think you as an atheist can speak about evil at all.

Guess my point tands, then, as this isn't coming from an atheist.

You're incapable of responding to the content because you're aware of the evil Christianity has perpetrated on the world in the name of God.

I am aware that you cannot rationally defend your usage of the word "evil" without positing a moral law giver unless you use it to signify an opinion. As I said before, if this is the case, I say thank you for sharing it.
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03-05-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 06:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What you fail to realize is that when you choose life without God, you necessarily forfeit good for evil.

You are a disgrace to mankind for coming up with statements like that. Weeping

Just labeling God good and settling the question of morality by fiat is absolutely ludicrous.

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03-05-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:22 PM)John Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What you fail to realize is that when you choose life without God, you necessarily forfeit good for evil.

You are a disgrace to mankind for coming up with statements like that. Weeping

Just labeling God good and settling the question of morality by fiat is absolutely ludicrous.

What do you found your moral judgments on?
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03-05-2014, 07:25 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2014 07:37 PM by rampant.a.i..)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:05 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Guess my point tands, then, as this isn't coming from an atheist.

You're incapable of responding to the content because you're aware of the evil Christianity has perpetrated on the world in the name of God.

I am aware that you cannot rationally defend your usage of the word "evil" without positing a moral law giver unless you use it to signify an opinion. As I said before, if this is the case, I say thank you for sharing it.

Take your self-righteous tone and blow it out your Godhole.

Morality is defined by people, not the invisible parent without whom you would not be able to comprehend morality or behave ethically, unlike those who can tell right from wrong and choose their behavior according to their own morality, and not how hard Sky Daddy is going to beat the with his Sky Belt when he gets home from work for acting immorally. Don't project your need for a set of instructions like "don't murder, steal, or bone your neighbor's wife" because of an inner psychosis on your part where you cannot percieve other human beings as people with equal wants and needs to your own.

And before you cry "victim" and cry crocodile tears over how you're being spoken to, realize this is composed with more respect than your child-beating, rape apologist fear-cult and personal faux pious condescension deserve.

Your mythological God banished the devil for his prideful ways, and yet you sit here announcing your own moral superiority because you have a set of rules you follow out of fear of punishment, not out of any concept of right or wrong?

Don't lecture on morality when you don't even know what it is, or where it comes from, without a 10-item cheat sheet and the same ethical principles society has been founded on for thousands of years before your violent fear cult rose to power.

Here's a simple definition your simple, Cliffs Notes of Morality amoral mind requires:

Evil: those actions that profoundly reduce or destroy happiness for large numbers of people.

Good: those actions that profoundly increase happiness for large numbers of people.

Take your presuppositional bullshit, throw some salt and chili powder on it, dump in some fresh julienned Jalapeños, douse it in Frank's Red Hot, and shove it back in your colon where it belongs: Because secular people are tired of you Presuppositional lobotomy patients "Putting that Shit on Everything" and claiming you define the moral good, when you can't even confront the moral evils Christianity has been responsible for, let alone explain it, without destroying your bullshit Presuppositional position.

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“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
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03-05-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 06:47 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  my point is that when an atheist who thinks like you tells a Christian that there is no evidence for God and that is why they do not believe in Him, the Christian can simply reply by saying: "So what?" If I bothered to give you the evidence, you would not ask God to be born again and repent of your sins. A Christian could care less if you acknowledge God's existence as a mere fact. The demons acknowledge His existence and tremble. And many acknowledge His existence and hate Him.

When a Christian talks with an atheist and gives them arguments and or reasons why God exists it is with the aim of leading that person to the point where they see their desperate need for God and their hopeless state so that they will repent and confess their sins and be forgiven. It is not so that the person can say: "Ok God exists."
What you are failing to see is that nothing you say makes any sense unless you assume your god exists. You make that assumption so, to you, things you are saying make sense (although, to me, even with that assumption they don't make sense, but that's another conversation). But to those of us who don't make that assumption, the question of existence is key to anything else about your god.

(03-05-2014 06:47 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  As I stated, I could care less whether or not you agree that the proposition "God exists" is true. You can believe the proposition and align yourself positively against God. I do what I do because I desire to see people receive the light and illumination of Christ in their heart and mind so that they may be saved, not so that people can say "God exists" and then go their merry way as slaves to sin.
Actually, you do what you do because you skipped right over the question of your god's existence without giving it any thought whatsoever and moved right onto "he exists and therefore..." I can see from your replies here that you aren't the slightest bit interested in or open-minded about reasoning or evidence that contradicts your view.

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03-05-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:25 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Morality is defined by people,...... those who can tell right from wrong and choose their behavior according to their own morality,

You do not believe what you just wrote.

You do not believe morality is defined by people, if so, then you would have to agree that everything anyone has ever done was moral, but clearly you do not agree with that for you think Christians are immoral followers of an immoral fictitious character in a book.

If you really thought morality i.e what was right and what was wrong was defined by the individual, then you cannot denounce the Nazis for doing anything wrong because they thought they were doing what was right.

You cannot denounce Christians for anything they do, or anyone else for that matter.

You have failed.
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03-05-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 03:45 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 03:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it is not possible to actively oppose a non-existent being. So I would live very differently.

You are wrong, have been shown to be wrong, and continue to claim you are right. You need to grow up.

Since we are not talking about God's existence, I shall dismiss the above as moot.

Rather we are talking about your disposition towards Him granting His existence. It is clear you would actively oppose Him and all that He stands for, for these were your own words, not mine.

So once again, why would you ask a Christian for evidence for God's existence? Would you do so in order to feel justified in opposing Him?

If so, what would you oppose Him for? For all that you think He has done that is as you would say "horrible" or "evil"?

But if God is evil in your eyes, then you must have some sort of idea about what is good, from which evil is a deviation. But if you have some sort of idea about what is good and what is evil then you must believe in some sort of moral ideal or law or standard which is your basis for distinguishing between good and evil. Something good being that which meets the ideal or law or standard, and something evil being that which fails to meet that ideal or law or standard.

But if there is no law or ideal or standard existing independently of you and I or anyone else on earth then all we have is a bunch of opinions, none being any closer to the non-existent ideal law or standard because it does not exist.

You believe God is evil. I believe He is good. In your world neither of us can say that our views are preferable over the other by virtue of their corresponding with the law that exists objectively outside of us because no such law exists!

But if no such law exists to which our views can be compared to, then you saying God is evil is like saying spaghetti is nasty. It is your opinion, nothing more.

The only way out of this is to posit the existence of an objective moral law. But if you posit this then you must give a coherent account of its ontology. Thus far, no one has been able to show how moral values and duties can exist independently of human beings in the absence of a transcendant moral law giver.

Are you terminally stupid?

I don't currently live my life in opposition to your god because I don't belleve he exists.

If it were shown he did, then I should be in opposition because the god described in the Bible is a right prick. The text describes him so.

So, no, I wouldn't go on living the way I currently do.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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