Poll: What's Jesus about?
Son of God, etc
Lowly preacher bigged up
Total myth, never existed
Based on real people and events to create a religion
King Arthur
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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04-05-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 07:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 07:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  I most certainly would not like that, I am not that conceited or that insecure that I need everyone to talk about me to feel validated.

Your god has some serious issues.

You are not conceited but feel it necessary to let us know you are not conceited which is in itself conceited.

Well, however you define the word conceited. Tongue

At least I don't require everyone on the planet to fall to their knees and praise me, regardless of what crap I heap upon them, or else I condemn them to forever torture.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-05-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
The point about King Arthur is that it is being argued by some that Jesus of the NT is a distortion of someone else who was a messianic warrior king, not a hippy peace preacher. The argument is that the real figure who has been buried by the Romans, actually survives in legends such as Arthur, St.George and the Islamic Al Kidr.

This may all be an enduring "romance". There is a theme which is current that the Holy Grail is actually a corruption of the "Sang Real" or Royal Blood, ie., a descendant of this warrior king.

I only realized recently that the crusaders did find someone who they installed as King of Jerusalem. He was Guy de Lusignan. It is interesting that the Lusignians, after losing Jerusalem, hung about in the Near East and became the royal family of Cyprus. What I did not know is that this family of "aristocrats" were then a very hot property amongst European royalty and pretty well every European royal family married into the Lusignans, and they are still around today, lots of them. I have no idea why they are so important or why it was felt one of them should be King of Jerusalem...

I think there it is plausible that the Crusades were about restoring a dynasty in the Near East rather than looking for a cup. The problem is that this was heretical back then so it could only be talked about as "legend".
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04-05-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 06:34 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 06:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is convincing evidence that you are delusional. You have an imaginary friend with whom you have a 'relationship'.

Seek professional help.

what if he can demonstrate evidence that his imaginary friend can give information to him, not possible via any conventional means ????

Just having an imaginary friend who loves you is one thing (? borderline schitz) but if that "friend" provides useful information not accessible via conventional means then what ? Does this back up the imaginary friend as real ?

What is the evidence that the friend is not imaginary ?

There is no evidence that said friend exists. He is making the claim, he has the burden of proof.

If he can repeatedly provide us information that is otherwise unobtainable, then that would be evidence of something.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:42 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 07:47 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 06:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is convincing evidence that you are delusional. You have an imaginary friend with whom you have a 'relationship'.

Seek professional help.

I do not really think that you think I am delusional, despite you saying that I am. For if I were truly delusional in your estimation, you would not converse with me in the manner you do, unless you just like arguing and trying to reason with delusional people. If the latter is indeed the case, the various mental institutions scattered abroad in the country in which you live could certainly use your "talents".

You fit the definition of delusional; no special talent required to see that.

And, yes, I do believe you are delusional. Really.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 12:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The point about King Arthur is that it is being argued by some that Jesus of the NT is a distortion of someone else who was a messianic warrior king, not a hippy peace preacher. The argument is that the real figure who has been buried by the Romans, actually survives in legends such as Arthur, St.George and the Islamic Al Kidr.

This may all be an enduring "romance". There is a theme which is current that the Holy Grail is actually a corruption of the "Sang Real" or Royal Blood, ie., a descendant of this warrior king.

I only realized recently that the crusaders did find someone who they installed as King of Jerusalem. He was Guy de Lusignan. It is interesting that the Lusignians, after losing Jerusalem, hung about in the Near East and became the royal family of Cyprus. What I did not know is that this family of "aristocrats" were then a very hot property amongst European royalty and pretty well every European royal family married into the Lusignans, and they are still around today, lots of them. I have no idea why they are so important or why it was felt one of them should be King of Jerusalem...

I think there it is plausible that the Crusades were about restoring a dynasty in the Near East rather than looking for a cup. The problem is that this was heretical back then so it could only be talked about as "legend".

Cup? Seriously?

"The conflict ignited as Muslim expansion threatened Europe. Islamic armies invaded Europe several times since Muhammad's death and threatened the Byzantine Empire and Europe itself. As a result of the threat, Pope Urban II declared a Crusade to liberate the Holy Land and relieve pressure on the Byzantines.

The Muslims conquered Syria in the 7th century opening the Holy Land for expansion. The territory, especially Jerusalem, remains sacred to Muslims to this day. According to tradition, Muhammad ascended to heaven from the city. The invaders continually rolled back the Byzantine Empire as they made their way to the Holy Land and Europe. Three centuries after the Syrian conquest, the Fatimid Caliph destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre."

And the idea that King Arthur is Jesus is the wacky product of a damaged mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
delusion
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder : the delusion of being watched.
• the action of deluding someone or the state of being deluded : what a capacity television has for delusion.

PHRASES
delusions of grandeur a false impression of one's own importance.

DERIVATIVES
delusional
adjective

ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense [act of deluding or of being deluded] ): from late Latin delusio(n-), from the verb deludere (see delude ).

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-05-2014, 08:12 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 08:19 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You are unwilling to answer the question. You know you would do nothing with the knowledge I speak of but you will not say that because it would then be evident that your "there is no evidence" facade which you hide behind to justify your unbelief is just that, a facade. Its fake, its phony. You know it and I know it. The truth is, is that the whole idea of you being morally accountable to a Holy and all wise God is something that is unappealing to you. You hate the idea. You see God as a kill-joy, someone who exists only to rain on your parade.

You ask for evidence that Christ is the Son of the Living God but not in order that you might have rational justification for placing your hope, trust, and life into His hands, but rather, to try to portray yourself as some good person who wants to believe but can't because there is no evidence. You are trying to deceive me and I think you may have deceived yourself.

So prove me wrong. What would you do with this knowledge?

I answered your question honestly and truthfully, and yet here you sit attempting to read into who I am and why I think the way I do all from three posts made on a forum. The shear hubris of this one. Your Christ would be so proud.

I ask for evidence of there even having been a divine Christ, of there even being a god that you so willingly assume the existence of. Assumptions are fun, I can make a few about you that you would probably not enjoy hearing. I don't doubt because I have a problem with morally questionable authority figures, I was raised in an LDS home. I doubt because there is no reason to believe in something there is no evidence of; no matter how reassuring you think your beliefs are, they explain nothing.

I am scientifically literate, I am able to read, and do so at every opportunity I have. I have studied your scriptures and that of many other religions, but I also study the sciences. Lectures, essays, books, published articles, all of which have substantially more evidence than you will ever be able to provide of your chosen deity.

Tell me, what have you done with the millions of pieces of evidence that point to there being no god? What would you do with more of this knowledge? Never mind, I already know the answer to that question. Delusion is the name of your game.

"Good news, everyone!"
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04-05-2014, 08:24 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 09:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You are not far from the Kingdom of God my friend.

I encourage you to keep seeking and searching. Thumbsup

Oh, look -- the fucktard is proselytizing here. Nice. :Hobo




(03-05-2014 09:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you sound like a Christian telling an atheist they are hopeless if they have to ask certain questions.

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04-05-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 07:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 07:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  I most certainly would not like that, I am not that conceited or that insecure that I need everyone to talk about me to feel validated.

Your god has some serious issues.

You are not conceited but feel it necessary to let us know you are not conceited which is in itself conceited.

Unless he's truly humble, and also honest. Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-05-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 09:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You are not far from the Kingdom of God my friend.
I encourage you to keep seeking and searching. Thumbsup

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".

*As if* some puny fundie human has any right to tell another who or what belongs to the the "kingdom" of a god they say created 600 sextillion stars, and that they are actually SO FUCKING arrogant to think they actually know what that means better than someone else or go around proclaiming their (implied) superiority. Of course we KNOW JEW thinks HE is of "the kingdom". What a pile of horse shit.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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