Poll: What's Jesus about?
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Based on real people and events to create a religion
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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04-05-2014, 10:31 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 10:38 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
I decided to look at what Suetonius (Roman historian) said about Vespasian in his book "The Twelve Caesars", which I bought when I was at university studying classical political theory.

He says that there was an "ancient idea in Judea" that the "ruler of the world" would come from Judea. He then says that, in fact, it turned out that the ruler of the world would be Vespasian. So, it is well known orthodox history that there was a movement in Judea which believed that a Roman Emperor would emerge from Judea.

After this he says that this ancient idea gave rise to the Jewish revolt which Vespasian was sent to oppose.

Who was the leader of this revolt who Jews thought would be the ruler of the world, ie., Roman Emperor? Why do we know so little about this?

Suetonius then goes on to say that Jospephus was captured and told Vespasian that Vespasian would become ruler of the world, ie., Emperor of Rome.

Josephus was from Galilee and was the commander at Gamala, in Galilee. He took a friend off a cross. Galilee is the center of a sect called the Nazarites. Josephus is adopted by Vespasian and is a Nazarite.

Then, Vespasian adopts Christianity as his religion and makes members of his court "Saints". Josephus writes the Wars of the Jews in which he recounts the destruction of Jerusalem as foretold by someone called "Jesus Christ". So either Jesus was able to foretell the future, or did so by chance, a lucky guess, or the Jesus story is a later invention to make it look like Vespasian is the "Son of Man".

Hmmm....
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05-05-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(04-05-2014 07:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 07:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  I most certainly would not like that, I am not that conceited or that insecure that I need everyone to talk about me to feel validated.

Your god has some serious issues.

You are not conceited but feel it necessary to let us know you are not conceited which is in itself conceited.

Do you... deny that God is just a myth? No? What, are you... in denial?

That type of reasoning is stupid, and I'm sure you can see why it's stupid.
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05-05-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:25 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Morality is defined by people,...... those who can tell right from wrong and choose their behavior according to their own morality,

You do not believe what you just wrote.

You do not believe morality is defined by people, if so, then you would have to agree that everything anyone has ever done was moral, but clearly you do not agree with that for you think Christians are immoral followers of an immoral fictitious character in a book.

If you really thought morality i.e what was right and what was wrong was defined by the individual, then you cannot denounce the Nazis for doing anything wrong because they thought they were doing what was right.

You cannot denounce Christians for anything they do, or anyone else for that matter.

You have failed.

Oh please - not the Hitler reference. You are one disturbed inividual who is not capable of cognitive thought or critical thinking. Honestly evaluate over and over again most of the hateful stuff contained in your many posts here, and give yourself a grade on how your thought process hepls this world.

BTW, Hitler was one person, who got many to follow his insane ideas, that also was led by the Christian god. The rest of the world stomped his craziness because it was wrong. Now once again, who was the driving force for his evil? Humans recognized it as evil, the Christian god - not so much.

You morally bankrupt PUTZ!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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05-05-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 08:18 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You do not believe what you just wrote.

You do not believe morality is defined by people, if so, then you would have to agree that everything anyone has ever done was moral, but clearly you do not agree with that for you think Christians are immoral followers of an immoral fictitious character in a book.

If you really thought morality i.e what was right and what was wrong was defined by the individual, then you cannot denounce the Nazis for doing anything wrong because they thought they were doing what was right.

You cannot denounce Christians for anything they do, or anyone else for that matter.

You have failed.

Oh please - not the Hitler reference. You are one disturbed inividual who is not capable of cognitive thought or critical thinking. Honestly evaluate over and over again most of the hateful stuff contained in your many posts here, and give yourself a grade on how your thought process hepls this world.

BTW, Hitler was one person, who got many to follow his insane ideas, that also was led by the Christian god. The rest of the world stomped his craziness because it was wrong. Now once again, who was the driving force for his evil? Humans recognized it as evil, the Christian god - not so much.

You morally bankrupt PUTZ!

Agreed.

Even assuming what all of the fundy fucktards want to about Hitler, that he was a secret atheist and not a True Christian™. Even giving them all that, it's still an indictment against Christianity and their God. Even assuming it was true, you're still left with one lone atheist getting an entire nation of Christians (both Catholics and Lutherans) to engage in war and systemic premeditated genocide. God, Christianity, and a belief in Jesus did fuck all to prevent the Holocaust.

The only morally bankrupt one here is the doctrine of substitutionary atonement at the core of Christianity, because the very concept destroys the personal responsibility upon which all morality and ethics must rest. I am not bound to be unable to say anything against the Nazis. They supported a fascist doctrine of discrimination, hatred, and genocide. I don't have to forgive them, but if any of those Nazis accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior; then according to Christian doctrine they all got passes into Heaven.

Tell me again who the morally bankrupt party is here?

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05-05-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 08:18 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You do not believe what you just wrote.

You do not believe morality is defined by people, if so, then you would have to agree that everything anyone has ever done was moral, but clearly you do not agree with that for you think Christians are immoral followers of an immoral fictitious character in a book.

If you really thought morality i.e what was right and what was wrong was defined by the individual, then you cannot denounce the Nazis for doing anything wrong because they thought they were doing what was right.

You cannot denounce Christians for anything they do, or anyone else for that matter.

You have failed.

Oh please - not the Hitler reference. You are one disturbed inividual who is not capable of cognitive thought or critical thinking. Honestly evaluate over and over again most of the hateful stuff contained in your many posts here, and give yourself a grade on how your thought process hepls this world.

BTW, Hitler was one person, who got many to follow his insane ideas, that also was led by the Christian god. The rest of the world stomped his craziness because it was wrong. Now once again, who was the driving force for his evil? Humans recognized it as evil, the Christian god - not so much.

You morally bankrupt PUTZ!
Plus he is confusing "morality is defined by people" with "people define morality as everything is right or moral".

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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05-05-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 09:10 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Plus he is confusing STRAWMANNING "morality is defined by people" with "people define morality as everything is right or moral".

fixt!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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05-05-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 09:10 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:18 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Oh please - not the Hitler reference. You are one disturbed inividual who is not capable of cognitive thought or critical thinking. Honestly evaluate over and over again most of the hateful stuff contained in your many posts here, and give yourself a grade on how your thought process hepls this world.

BTW, Hitler was one person, who got many to follow his insane ideas, that also was led by the Christian god. The rest of the world stomped his craziness because it was wrong. Now once again, who was the driving force for his evil? Humans recognized it as evil, the Christian god - not so much.

You morally bankrupt PUTZ!
Plus he is confusing "morality is defined by people" with "people define morality as everything is right or moral".

Exactly - like we need the bable to come to the conclusion that genocide is wrong. We humans just cannot make that call on our own - friggin retard. Hey J.E.W., please enlighten me on where the Christian moral code/doctine condemns, on the whole, rape and the owning of other humans as slaves.

Why do mindless drones need to assume all other humans must also be mindless drones, which would accept anything as good unless the imaginary papa figure in the sky tells them if they are right or wrong?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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05-05-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 09:47 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Exactly - like we need the bable to come to the conclusion that genocide is wrong. We humans just cannot make that call on our own - friggin retard. Hey J.E.W., please enlighten me on where the Christian moral code/doctine condemns, on the whole, rape and the owning of other humans as slaves.

Really, when you look at it, the Bible actually paints that picture. The OT says that genocide is okay if God commands it. Then, the Jews get conquered by the Romans. Now, the NT says genocide is bad. It's almost like God changed his mind...

...along with changing external circumstances. Huh.
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05-05-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 10:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Really, when you look at it, the Bible actually paints that picture. The OT says that genocide is okay if God commands it. Then, the Jews get conquered by the Romans. Now, the NT says genocide is bad. It's almost like God changed his mind...

...along with changing external circumstances. Huh.

....and don't forget to feel bad for the J.E.W.s who had to come to terms with God wanting to see some blood on the ground, and to have it all acted out by his elect righteous minions. Must've made them see nightmares for weeks to come. But then again, all that sacrificing and cutting throats open must've made them used to spilling blood all over the place, so go figure. Dodgy

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05-05-2014, 11:51 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
Hey Geremy walker , are you the christard walker dude that was banned in the atheistforums.com website? The same christard that is trolling the atheist.org website ? Consider
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