Poll: What's Jesus about?
Son of God, etc
Lowly preacher bigged up
Total myth, never existed
Based on real people and events to create a religion
King Arthur
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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07-05-2014, 03:57 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2014 05:21 AM by John.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(06-05-2014 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Richard Dawkins promoted Atwill. That makes him a crank too then?

Even if that were the case (citation indeed NEEDED), it's one thing to promote someone, and it's an entirely different thing to endorse someone. The only relevant quote to Jesus-mythicism uttered by Dawkins that I'm aware of is this from 2012:

Quote:PLAYBOY: What is your view of Jesus?

DAWKINS: The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky. The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real. Even if he’s fictional, whoever wrote his lines was ahead of his time in terms of moral philosophy.

I see no Atwill here, nor any other mythicist's name spelled out for that matter. And for Jesus' sake, why does Google have to be such a grumpy old catholic nanny nowadays and censor *mature* content into oblivion, took me like 5 tries to get a hit to playboy on the first page... Facepalm /rant

In any case, I'd think that Dawkins were bright enough not to take a definitive stance on who or what, if anything, Jesus was. And the above quote seems to support just that.

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07-05-2014, 05:58 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 03:40 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: citation_needed.jpg]

And it had better be good because of this.

Don't you mean this

That you lack the ability to not discern a site purpose built to slander a person's character does not speak well of your cognitive abilities. The site is an axe job, with stuff like "Tom Verenna the pervert:" and "Tom Verenna the fascist:". Whoever made it (most likely Ellis, as he's a paranoid internet stalking fuktard) is grasping at straws in an effort to attack his character.

Man, you are stupid as fuck.

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07-05-2014, 07:29 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 05:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:40 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Don't you mean this

That you lack the ability to not discern a site purpose built to slander a person's character does not speak well of your cognitive abilities. The site is an axe job, with stuff like "Tom Verenna the pervert:" and "Tom Verenna the fascist:". Whoever made it (most likely Ellis, as he's a paranoid internet stalking fuktard) is grasping at straws in an effort to attack his character.

Man, you are stupid as fuck.

Are you still talking to this sycophant? At least with Ellis it was someone who had an idea (wrong and very dishonestly supported but at least an idea) this guy is just a fanboi and frankly not worth the time to do more than link to where Ralphie got his ass handed too him by the collective forum and move along. He has even less of an argument that Ellis does.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-05-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 03:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 02:47 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Interesting you post something by Thomas Verenna. He never made it past second year of a BA at Rutgers. I'll stick with RD.

The fact that there are a lot of similarities in the lifelines of JC and Titus F. doesn't make the person who found them a "crank".FacepalmDrinking Beverage

He left Rutgers because he was a part time, non-traditional, out of state student; and Rutgers kept yanking his chain and fucking him over academically and financially. Now do you have another stawman effigy you'd like to attempt to light, or can we move past your pedantic bullshit?

No, what makes them cranks is their refusal or inability to get anything they do vetted or peer reviewed by relevant academic professionals; then to sit there and cry 'conspiracy' at the world of academia for not taking them seriously. They see these connections to the exclusion of everything else, ignoring facts that do align with their preferred conclusions. That's what makes them cranks, and you a fucking moron too credulous for your own good.

"you a fucking moron too credulous for your own good

Genuflect when you say that, boy!


(Gee, golly, big bad Rutgers pulled the plug on such a genius as T.V. Wowzer, I suppose that will go down as one of history's great tragedies that T. V. was cut down before he was even ripe)
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07-05-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 05:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:40 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Don't you mean this

That you lack the ability to not discern a site purpose built to slander a person's character does not speak well of your cognitive abilities. The site is an axe job, with stuff like "Tom Verenna the pervert:" and "Tom Verenna the fascist:". Whoever made it (most likely Ellis, as he's a paranoid internet stalking fuktard) is grasping at straws in an effort to attack his character.

Man, you are stupid as fuck.


And your language speaks volumes about you.
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07-05-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 03:57 AM)John Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:06 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Richard Dawkins promoted Atwill. That makes him a crank too then?

Even if that were the case (citation indeed NEEDED), it's one thing to promote someone, and it's an entirely different thing to endorse someone. The only relevant quote to Jesus-mythicism uttered by Dawkins that I'm aware of is this from 2012:

Quote:PLAYBOY: What is your view of Jesus?

DAWKINS: The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky. The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real. Even if he’s fictional, whoever wrote his lines was ahead of his time in terms of moral philosophy.

I see no Atwill here, nor any other mythicist's name spelled out for that matter. And for Jesus' sake, why does Google have to be such a grumpy old catholic nanny nowadays and censor *mature* content into oblivion, took me like 5 tries to get a hit to playboy on the first page... Facepalm /rant

In any case, I'd think that Dawkins were bright enough not to take a definitive stance on who or what, if anything, Jesus was. And the above quote seems to support just that.


I don't know what Dawkins exact view is on Atwill or even Ellis. I suspect he doesn't believe the NT is "true" or "reliable". I also suspect that he would support an attitude which considers all sides without resort to foul mouthed abuse. But that is just a hunch!Laugh out load
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07-05-2014, 08:27 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 08:19 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:57 AM)John Wrote:  Even if that were the case (citation indeed NEEDED), it's one thing to promote someone, and it's an entirely different thing to endorse someone. The only relevant quote to Jesus-mythicism uttered by Dawkins that I'm aware of is this from 2012:


I see no Atwill here, nor any other mythicist's name spelled out for that matter. And for Jesus' sake, why does Google have to be such a grumpy old catholic nanny nowadays and censor *mature* content into oblivion, took me like 5 tries to get a hit to playboy on the first page... Facepalm /rant

In any case, I'd think that Dawkins were bright enough not to take a definitive stance on who or what, if anything, Jesus was. And the above quote seems to support just that.


I don't know what Dawkins exact view is on Atwill or even Ellis. I suspect he doesn't believe the NT is "true" or "reliable". I also suspect that he would support an attitude which considers all sides without resort to foul mouthed abuse. But that is just a hunch!Laugh out load
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07-05-2014, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2014 08:35 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(27-04-2014 11:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Obviously, I am hoping for King Arthur to win.
it's a good thing I looked it up, before answering #3, "based on real people and events to create a religion."

(27-04-2014 11:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  So, I want to know what the view of atheists is. What is more cogent, rational and intelligible. That all these hundreds of years of domination of the West and the Americas by Christianity resulted from a guy in sandles preaching peace. Or is it more likely this is a very heavy political rewriting of what happened in Judea after the Jews were crushed. The victors write the history books...

I think the allegory that the description of a child of a monotheist god is something that atheists are going to have some difficulty accepting.

(27-04-2014 12:32 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I found this article about the Muslim view of Jesus. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/365/

It says that Jesus was going to come back on a horse with a spear and slay the "false messiah" at Lydda, which is where St. George is supposed to have come from. So, even Muslims have the same view, that the hippy peacenik messiah is a false messiah and that the real Jesus was a warrior who fought against evil.
That's an interesting theory, and I would venture that all possible exploitations of the inadequacies of the storyline have been deployed; and most atheists are too furious about the superficial aspects that mesmerize the religious people that they encounter, to understand how the storyline was good enough for an era that is to be a small fraction of the history of Mankind.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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07-05-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
"You can't suck and blow at the same time". I think that nicely sums up a situation where, on the one hand, someone is accused of going beyond the scope of his expertise while, at the same time, criticizing him because he hasn't.

Richard Dawkins, as rightly pointed out by somebody here is not a bible expert so his actual endorsement wouldn't carry much weigh academically. However, he did "support" Atwill in the following way:

Joseph Atwill said he will present his findings in London later this month. The purpose of the presentation — titled “Covert Messiah” — is that “alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods,” said Atwill.

Famed atheist Richard Dawkins circulated the press release for Atwill’s gig on Twitter but said that he did not necessarily endorse Atwill’s findings.

Dawkins argued that it doesn’t matter whether or not Jesus existed. “Gospels clearly mostly false (virgin birth, miracles etc). The possibility that Jesus didn’t exist at all is of only marginal extra interest,” tweeted the prickly atheist icon.

Atwill maintains that governments — including the Romans — create those “false” histories and gods “to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people.”

“When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare,” said Atwill, whose talk is sub-headlined, “Is Christianity the Genesis of Modern Psychological Warfare?”

“That’s when the ‘peaceful’ Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to ‘give onto Caesar’ and pay their taxes to Rome,” said Atwill, who claims that his book “Caeser’s Messiah” was the best-selling work of religious history in 2007.

Atwill says that the story of Jesus mirrors the military campaigns of Roman Emperor Titus Flavius. “The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar,” said Atwill.




Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/09/biblic...z312XjmTOR


So, let's have the next idiotic post that he didn't "endorse" Atwill or that he isn't a bible scholar so he can't endorse Atwill... "and it's one thing to support...blah blah," and it is another to stop talking out your anal sphincter.
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07-05-2014, 08:39 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2014 08:45 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 08:13 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Genuflect when you say that, boy!

Come across and compelling theories about the origin of that genuflection?

"Virgin birth," what might that be useful for???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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