Poll: What's Jesus about?
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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07-05-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 02:47 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: citation_needed.jpg]

Interesting you post something by Thomas Verenna. He never made it past second year of a BA at Rutgers. I'll stick with RD.

The fact that there are a lot of similarities in the lifelines of JC and Titus F. doesn't make the person who found them a "crank".FacepalmDrinking Beverage

Still waiting for your citation. Drinking Beverage

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07-05-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 08:33 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  "You can't suck and blow at the same time". I think that nicely sums up a situation where, on the one hand, someone is accused of going beyond the scope of his expertise while, at the same time, criticizing him because he hasn't.

Richard Dawkins, as rightly pointed out by somebody here is not a bible expert so his actual endorsement wouldn't carry much weigh academically. However, he did "support" Atwill in the following way:

Joseph Atwill said he will present his findings in London later this month. The purpose of the presentation — titled “Covert Messiah” — is that “alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods,” said Atwill.

Famed atheist Richard Dawkins circulated the press release for Atwill’s gig on Twitter but said that he did not necessarily endorse Atwill’s findings.

Dawkins argued that it doesn’t matter whether or not Jesus existed. “Gospels clearly mostly false (virgin birth, miracles etc). The possibility that Jesus didn’t exist at all is of only marginal extra interest,” tweeted the prickly atheist icon.

Atwill maintains that governments — including the Romans — create those “false” histories and gods “to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people.”

“When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare,” said Atwill, whose talk is sub-headlined, “Is Christianity the Genesis of Modern Psychological Warfare?”

“That’s when the ‘peaceful’ Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to ‘give onto Caesar’ and pay their taxes to Rome,” said Atwill, who claims that his book “Caeser’s Messiah” was the best-selling work of religious history in 2007.

Atwill says that the story of Jesus mirrors the military campaigns of Roman Emperor Titus Flavius. “The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar,” said Atwill.




Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/09/biblic...z312XjmTOR


So, let's have the next idiotic post that he didn't "endorse" Atwill or that he isn't a bible scholar so he can't endorse Atwill... "and it's one thing to support...blah blah," and it is another to stop talking out your anal sphincter.

Seems like Dawkins lived up to my expectations. Quaint old man.

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07-05-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 02:47 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Interesting you post something by Thomas Verenna. He never made it past second year of a BA at Rutgers. I'll stick with RD.

The fact that there are a lot of similarities in the lifelines of JC and Titus F. doesn't make the person who found them a "crank".FacepalmDrinking Beverage

Still waiting for your citation. Drinking Beverage

Citation for what? I have no idea what you are on about.Huh
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07-05-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 08:16 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 05:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That you lack the ability to not discern a site purpose built to slander a person's character does not speak well of your cognitive abilities. The site is an axe job, with stuff like "Tom Verenna the pervert:" and "Tom Verenna the fascist:". Whoever made it (most likely Ellis, as he's a paranoid internet stalking fuktard) is grasping at straws in an effort to attack his character.

Man, you are stupid as fuck.


And your language speaks volumes about you.

Yeah, funny how easy it is to get ideas across when one speaks plainly.

And you're still a credulous fucktard. Do you look at all beyond the first thing Google spits up when you're searching for something to support your presupposition, or do you actually put effort into ignoring inconvenient facts?

Yeah, I know, it's a rhetorical question...

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07-05-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 09:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 09:14 PM)djhall Wrote:  The best possible outcome would be for there to be a god and for that god to turn out to be good and fair and loving and sane in both reality and in our judgment, and somehow have a way to salvage a good thing from a bad start. Unfortunately, everything I have seen so far of life, humanity, science, and the universe firmly points to the conclusion that nothing short of a miracle makes that outcome even a remote possibility.

You are not far from the Kingdom of God my friend. I encourage you to keep seeking and searching. Thumbsup

The solution is not going to be achieved by divine intervention - it will be achieved by the deployment of a more accurate social contract.

The legends of Christian scripture are accurate allegories that were necessary for the economic construction of the era, but the future is to be dependent on a more accurate organization of those stories.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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07-05-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 10:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I think they had an idea that there was some "logic" or "reason" behind all of life. I think we are moving, in the secular world, towards understanding life, the cosmos through reason and science. I also think that the philosophy of Christianity which is quite well set out in the Didache, which I have posted on another thread is a reflection of a scientific mindset which seeks a philosophy of life which, in basic terms, makes sense, or "works".

I agree. A quick review of the Didache seems to describe the organizational charter, beyond that I am going to be suspicious of interpretations of reason for teaching the different allegories.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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07-05-2014, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2014 10:18 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(03-05-2014 07:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What do you found your moral judgments on?

Contemporary civil law - which has it's origin in the same linage that Christian morality is considered to be constructed from, and ultimately, the moral foundation for atheists is to be deliberated in the philosophical study of property, but it is pretty much ordered by contemporary civil and scientific law. Atheists have done a poor job of organizing this stuff for Christians to review, but it is coming in the near future and will be guiding the next era in social evolution.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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07-05-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 10:12 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What do you found your moral judgments on?

Contemporary civil law - which has it's origin in the same linage that Christian morality is considered to be constructed from, and ultimately, the moral foundation for atheists is to be deliberated in the philosophical study of property, but it is pretty much ordered by contemporary civil and scientific law. Atheists have done a poor job of organizing this stuff for Christians to review, but it is coming in the near future and will be guiding the next era in social evolution.

Come again? Only next time with less L. Ron Hubbard...

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08-05-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(07-05-2014 10:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Come again? Only next time with less L. Ron Hubbard...

Why don't you offer an explanation for what atheists base their morality on and then I can understand what it is you do not understand about my explanation - shit head.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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08-05-2014, 07:16 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2014 07:25 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(05-05-2014 08:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The only morally bankrupt one here is the doctrine of substitutionary atonement at the core of Christianity, because the very concept destroys the personal responsibility upon which all morality and ethics must rest. I am not bound to be unable to say anything against the Nazis. They supported a fascist doctrine of discrimination, hatred, and genocide. I don't have to forgive them, but if any of those Nazis accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior; then according to Christian doctrine they all got passes into Heaven.

Tell me again who the morally bankrupt party is here?

Why are you even fucking bothering to sort and explain this shit - who cares? Move on, pretend that Christians and their doctrines do not exist, and pay attention to what matters - defining reality for the future. It is as if you are pretending that atheists have everything sorted out and that the only thing left to do is to straighten-out the Christians. Atheists cannot agree on the definition of atheism.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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