Poll: What's Jesus about?
Son of God, etc
Lowly preacher bigged up
Total myth, never existed
Based on real people and events to create a religion
King Arthur
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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22-05-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 09:04 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The problem with atheists on this forum and some others is that they don't understand that a morality can be and must be based on reason. Most people have been brought up to understand that they "should" or should not do something because they will be rewarded or punished by someone, ie., a parent, police etc and god is the ultimate policeman. When they get rid of god, they mistakenly think they have got rid of morality and then they feel that anything goes, which is why there is so much abuse on this forum from people who don't have anything to say about morality and don't behave in a moral way.

It's very discouraging.
Total crap. As someone who used to be a thiest I did not all of a sudden loose my moral compas when I rejected the notion of god. I have not killed anyone, or stolen anything, or cheated on my wife, etc, etc since my deconversion. I am as pleasant as I ever was, actually probably more so now.

Since my deconversion I have been approaced my some very catholic people to participate in a thing that was both unethical and illegal. I explained to them I would have no part of it and why. The next day the person that approached me and told me he was out too. Apparently my explanation of how wrong it was sunk in over night. Just fyi, I am an engineer and I was approached to "reverse engineer" (aka copy) a product to bring to market. No way am I going to get involved in that.

I helped the same guy move a heavy table last night so I do not even hold poor judgement against him.
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22-05-2014, 12:05 PM
What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 11:59 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 09:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  And you're doing it, too.
Generalizations like that are ignorant and presumptuous - they make you look like a fool.It's very discouraging.

I am not reading any reports suggesting that forums are making any progress in social issues. Don't you think atheists exercise of reason would generate something more useful then guarding the old god arguments???

Why can't atheist generate policy that would be useful to all people. There are several revolutions going on, and they need constitutions to organize their governments, and you know the people want a better society than Christian America, and you know that is the best that the politicians can offer - right?

Why can't the highly reasonable atheists generate one to offer???

Join a political group, this is a discussion forum.

https://m.facebook.com/NationalAtheistParty

https://m.facebook.com/SecularPartyofAmerica

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s...anizations

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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22-05-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 11:49 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Apparently you're not reading the majority of posts on this forum, otherwise you would not be able to make such a gross mischaracterization of what's expressed here.

The reason you are a target of "abuse" is because you refuse to participate in discussions, and continue straw manning positions you haven't even read, and assessing the "morality" of the entire forum based on their text-based responses to your poor behavior on an Internet forum, and your habitual accusatory, self superior and condescending tone.

You have not acheived what it is you believe you are acheiving - atheists are not offering society anything useful, otherwise we would be hearing about it. NEED POLICY!Thumbsup

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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22-05-2014, 12:10 PM
What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
This is a discussion forum, join a political party.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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22-05-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 11:59 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 09:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  And you're doing it, too.
Generalizations like that are ignorant and presumptuous - they make you look like a fool.It's very discouraging.

I am not reading any reports suggesting that forums are making any progress in social issues. Don't you think atheists exercise of reason would generate something more useful then guarding the old god arguments???

Why can't atheist generate policy that would be useful to all people. There are several revolutions going on, and they need constitutions to organize their governments, and you know the people want a better society than Christian America, and you know that is the best that the politicians can offer - right?

Why can't the highly reasonable atheists generate one to offer???

And you continue to do it. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-05-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 12:06 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  You have not acheived what it is you believe you are acheiving - atheists are not offering society anything useful, otherwise we would be hearing about it. NEED POLICY!Thumbsup

Do fuck right off. You are like every other monomaniacal, narcissistic troll who comes through here.

You are unable to listen to what others say, you bang on about your latest hobby horse and inject it into discussions where it makes no sense, you act like you know what everyone else is thinking and what their motives are.

Tell me, what is it that you think we believe we are achieving?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-05-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 12:05 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Join a political group, this is a discussion forum.
Yeah - this is their work

I can't wait to sign their petition and make a difference with the terrorists!!!Hobo

http://www.atheistalliance.org/
Quote:ATHEISM = TERRORISM?!?

Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaThe Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, after all these years, has finally come down hard on terrorism in their country - by declaring anyone who is an atheist, who associates with atheists, or even seeks information about atheism, to be criminals subject to criminal prosecution!

This, by a country that has not only openly encouraged and financed radical Islamist sects such as al-Qaeda for decades, but was also recently appointed to the UN's Human Rights Commission!

Don't let the Saudis get away with this. In a country where the Pew Research International estimates that 10-15% of Saudis are non-religious, this law will put millions of Saudi citizens at risk of arbitrary arrest, imprisonment, torture, and even execution.

Sign AAI's petition denouncing these outrageous new laws and calling for world leaders to demand that they be rescinded!
Quote:Saudi Arabia has recently passed a set of laws which declare atheists to be terrorists, and accompanied with draconian punishments - even death - that put atheists in Saudi Arabia at great risk. Even innocent acts such as visiting an atheist website or communicating with any atheist organisation or individual is now a criminal offense.

These laws criminalize a large segment of the population for no reason other than they do not share the official religious beliefs of the Saudi government. This is a violation of human rights and international law. It also violates the Arab Charter for Human Rights, a human rights treaty to which Saudi Arabia is a signatory. Not only will these laws likely cause the unjust incarceration and likely abuse of tens of thousands of Saudi citizens, it will also contribute to an increase in Saudi atheists seeking asylum in other, more tolerant countries.

There are many self-declared atheists in Saudi Arabia, most of whom are young and well educated. Surveys such as the Win-Gallop poll identify that some 5% of Saudi Arabians consider themselves atheists and a further 19% consider themselves ‘non-religious'. In a country of 30 million people, this law will affect more than 7 million Saudi citizens.

Saudi Arabia has been one of the strongest proponents of a UN anti-blasphemy resolution to ensure that religion – particularly Islam – is ‘respected.’ It has also recently been appointed to the UN Human Rights Council. If it is serious about expecting 'respect' for its favored religious sect, it should be willing to extend equal respect and protection to those who hold different or no religious beliefs.

We urge the Saudi government to rescind these laws before innocent lives are destroyed and a refugee crisis erupts.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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22-05-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 12:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Tell me, what is it that you think we believe we are achieving?
1) Guarding reason from the Christians debasement of it?

2) Making the world safe for atheists to live free and not oppressed.

What do you think you're doing??

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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22-05-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 06:52 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 01:11 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Sophistication and intelligence are irrelevant as evidenced by the number of people today that have both traits and believe in one faith or another. Neither prevents people from embracing myths as reality. All it takes is a need to believe and there are a variety of reasons why people have that need which would have been just as true at any point in history (probably even more so back when knowledge was far more limited).

Ever play or hear of the "telephone" game where a line of people whisper something from person to person and, by the time it gets to the last person, it's nothing like what the first person originally said? That's probably why there are so many Jesus stories. What people hear isn't always what was said or intended and stories get embellished and changed as they are passed along (which is why the oral tradition makes the Bible automatically nonsensical, but I digress). If I start telling you Jesus walked on water and 20 people later it has been changed to Jesus made wine from water, well now there are two miracles being told about Jesus.


Except that the entire "civilized world" was ruled by a pagan Roman government which was so awful that the "god" Julius Caesar" was stabbed to death because he was so corrupt and hated. He believed that "crime" was "noble". The history of the Caesars is about how some of them were like that, and others were less hated. I think it is naive to think that Christianity was adopted as the imperial cult with the synoptic gospels rammed down the throats of the clergy on pain of death and it all just popped out of thin air and wasn't based on something. There was no one in Rome who was making a good claim to be emperor and then Vespasian goes to Jerusalem and destroys it because there is talk of the possibility of the next ruler of the world coming from Judea. And Vespasian crucifies a Jewish leader and wins, then takes the title of Emperor.

hmmmm.....

That is really all I can say. I am going to try to get hold of some books about it. It is pointless speculating and apart from it being of some historical interest, it doesn't change the underlying philosophy.
I'm not going to pretend I have a great knowledge of history in that time period because I don't. So, until I learn more, I really can't engage in that part of the discussion and I'll leave that to people who know far more than I do about the subject. The purpose of my previous reply to you was to point out the problems with those arguments that I mentioned. So-called arguments like "it just can't be because people were too intelligent to be so fooled" don't hold any water. If you want to present facts and evidence to support that Jesus in concept is based upon an actual person, I would consider them. But the arguments that I replied to are completely dismissible.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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22-05-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(22-05-2014 08:08 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  And the solution is standardizing knowledge classification - making sure everyone agrees what words mean what, and that everything is systematically described in the approach to perfection.
Quite ironic coming from someone who repeatedly attempts to redefine words to mean things that they don't mean to anyone else.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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