Poll: What's Jesus about?
Son of God, etc
Lowly preacher bigged up
Total myth, never existed
Based on real people and events to create a religion
King Arthur
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What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
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02-05-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 06:32 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not subscribe to the strawman of Christian Faith that Eberhart presents so his speech is not even applicable to me.

I, and most everyone on this thread, would love to see some valid explanation in support of this claim you make of a another strawman, and how it does not pertain to you. Please elaborate.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-05-2014, 08:51 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 08:07 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 06:32 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not subscribe to the strawman of Christian Faith that Eberhart presents so his speech is not even applicable to me.

I, and most everyone on this thread, would love to see some valid explanation in support of this claim you make of a another strawman, and how it does not pertain to you. Please elaborate.

You will need to ask Delta Bravo if he is ok with having the thread derailed. If he does not mind then I will answer your question here. If he objects then you can always start a new thread and there I will explain to you why Eberhart is wrong in his understanding of what faith is.
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02-05-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
Yep - figures. Angry Fine.
I know Jesus was an atheist and not only theists but the entire atheist community is trying to squelch this information!!!
I'm the one being persecuted here people!!!!

ME!! Me ME ME!! Sadcryface2

***
Oh, go right ahead and just completely ignore any interesting idea I may have put forth.

In the end, your perceived god will kill you and feed your soul to the fiery furnace just to be done with your ignorance and bitching. At least I'll get to go hang out with Jesus and Judas in Pleroma, far above the realm of the creator God of this world.

So, fuck all y'all. Drinking Beverage Mean & stupid humans.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-05-2014, 09:25 AM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(01-05-2014 04:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Actually I would not say it was ridiculous. I would just say it is false.
Potato, potahto *shrug* Drinking Beverage

(01-05-2014 04:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  False because I have historical evidence that demonstrates it is false, i.e. that Jesus of Nazareth is not a myth, but rather was a first century Jew who was crucified under Pontius Pilate because of who He claimed to be.
What is this historical evidence you claim to have? Certainly not the bible because that has been debunked; so what else have you got? By the way, there is no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.

(01-05-2014 04:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So in other words, I would say if you do know this monster personally, you might want to ask him why he tells you lies
Ask the same question of your pastor. (I would have said "ask Jesus", but I know he's not telling you anything.)

(01-05-2014 04:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Which is more important, to be able to think, and to think...

Or to be able to think correctly and think correctly?
Thinking is neither correct or incorrect. It's only conclusions from thinking that are correct or incorrect. When you are able to think, you are also able to understand that.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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02-05-2014, 10:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 10:35 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 08:51 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 08:07 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I, and most everyone on this thread, would love to see some valid explanation in support of this claim you make of a another strawman, and how it does not pertain to you. Please elaborate.

You will need to ask Delta Bravo if he is ok with having the thread derailed. If he does not mind then I will answer your question here. If he objects then you can always start a new thread and there I will explain to you why Eberhart is wrong in his understanding of what faith is.

I am happy with you discussing that here.

I should say, Jeremy, that I came to this forum because I had read Joe Atwill's book, Caesar's Messiah and heard about Ralph Ellis. I googled him and it brought me here. I have never believed in "God" nor in resurrection. The first time I heard of it, as a child, I thought it was some sort of trick to get Jesus of the cross before he died. I soon after stopped going to church at about age 10 because I just did not have the mind that accepts things like that. I also found it incredibly unpleasant as a story and just couldn't figure out what it had to do with, well, anything. None of it made any sense.

Having joined in the debate here, I have come to the conclusion, that there was a real "Jesus" and that he was a convert to an existing religious sect which was centred in Galilee. The history of this time has largely been lost or overwritten by the Romans but I am sure in my own mind that there was a person who was crucified because of his position as a "messiah" who preached peace and was effectively betrayed by the Jewish community who did not share his beliefs. Who, precisely this figure was is difficult to assess, because the Romans took control of the area, destroyed Jerusalem and were pagans at that time so had every reason to bury the religion.

My own view of god as set forth in the New Testament is that it is a gnostic term and that the religion set out is a form of Gnosticism. I think that those who wrote the New Testament were not talking about a traditional concept of a "God" as an anthropomorphic figure, like Zeus, living in the skies. I think they had an idea that there was some "logic" or "reason" behind all of life. I think we are moving, in the secular world, towards understanding life, the cosmos through reason and science. I also think that the philosophy of Christianity which is quite well set out in the Didache, which I have posted on another thread is a reflection of a scientific mindset which seeks a philosophy of life which, in basic terms, makes sense, or "works".

There is a psychological theory called Logotherapy which was devised by Viktor Frankle while he was in a German concentration camp in WWII. He counselled others to look at their purpose in life, who they loved and their role in making others happy. While he was camp psychologist there were no suicides in the camp and when the Allies captured the camp, the Jews still there were so pleased with the commandant that they protected him from the Allies.

I think there is something very deep and profound about this theory and it stems from our makeup as human beings.

The problem with "Christianity" as we know it, however, is that it is a jumble of different "threads" put together for political purposes so I think it is important to see beyond the stories and notions coming from them and to try to find a deeper and wider meaning of the religion. Otherwise, I think that the underlying philosophy is lost and will continue to be decline in importance, particularly if Christians fail to appreciate that it just doesn't "wash" with intelligent people to try to get them to believe in virgin birth, miracles and resurrection, not to mention the fact that the NT is all over the place and riddled with inconsistencies which intelligent, thinking people are just not prepared to brush under the carpet and forget about so they can accept concepts which they find absurd and ridiculous.
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02-05-2014, 12:42 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
AND, its Total Myth in the lead, followed by Bigged up Preacher and Real People in third place. King Arthur is a distant fourth and Son of God is nowhere to be seen. Popcorn
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02-05-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 09:25 AM)Impulse Wrote:  What is this historical evidence you claim to have? Certainly not the bible because that has been debunked; so what else have you got? By the way, there is no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.

If the thread author agrees for me to speak on this then I will here. If not then you can start a separate thread. Ask the author of the thread first please.
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02-05-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 10:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The problem with "Christianity" as we know it, however, is that it is a jumble of different "threads" put together for political purposes

What evidence/argument/support do you have for this view?




(02-05-2014 10:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  if Christians fail to appreciate that it just doesn't "wash" with intelligent people to try to get them to believe in virgin birth, miracles and resurrection,

Are you saying that there are no intelligent people who believe in Jesus Christ, i.e. intelligent people who designate themselves as Christians?

(02-05-2014 10:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  not to mention the fact that the NT is all over the place and riddled with inconsistencies which intelligent, thinking people are just not prepared to brush under the carpet and forget about so they can accept concepts which they find absurd and ridiculous.

Name one inconsistency.
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02-05-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 03:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 10:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  not to mention the fact that the NT is all over the place and riddled with inconsistencies which intelligent, thinking people are just not prepared to brush under the carpet and forget about so they can accept concepts which they find absurd and ridiculous.

Name one inconsistency.

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02-05-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: What is the more likely explanation of Jesus?
(02-05-2014 03:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Name one inconsistency.

Tell me, sir; what was the genealogy of Yeshua?
What were his last words?
When did he rise to heaven?
Where did he cure the Blind Man?
Who buried the poor sod?
What did he say to the High Priest?
Who carried his cross?

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