What is the point of being an active atheist?
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03-09-2012, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 02:11 PM by Impulse.)
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
(02-09-2012 01:37 PM)Magoo Wrote:  I always found it a bit strange the way some atheists are active atheists. They go out and debate, and talk about how much they don't believe in God. I think it's okay to do it just because you are sick of religious people, and want to be around like-minded invidiuals or something, but other than that, it seems pointless. It just makes no sense to me. Now I know if some religious nut starts challenging you, then obviously you are going to defend, but deliberately going out of your way to debate God, creation, etc, just seems like a waste of time in my opinion. Anyone else feel this way?
When you fully understand all the harms that religions cause and that the world could be a far better place without those harms, then you will no longer think it's pointless to raise awareness of the farce that is religion. There are those who believe in a religion who will never be swayed from their beliefs, but conversations with them can still be heard or read by other people who may be less rigid and more willing to examine their beliefs with an open mind. It is for them in which the point of having those conversations can be found. Finally, the more you debate, the more you learn about the opposing viewpoints and the stronger your debating skills will become. That means, when you encounter one of those open-minded people, you will be in a better position to really help them because you will be more ready to answer their lingering questions and doubts.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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03-09-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
(03-09-2012 01:05 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 10:53 AM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  Ok, lets give it one more shot.

You say, you just want to compair belief-systems...
Not quite sure how to put it...
I say, Atheisum is not a belief-system, it is the opposite.
It meens, i have the lack of belief/faith in god.
Otherwise, an atheist has to say: I belief, that i don't belief in god.
Instead he always say: I didn't belief in god.
In that case "didn't belief" meens no belief what so ever.
Maybe this is the point, were we agree to disagree.
What do you think? (caution, i wrote think, not belief, just to make a difference)

Im glad you gave it one more shot Big Grin

I can see why you say atheism is the opposite of religion..... however in my view the belief that there is no god, is still a belief in itself.

A few comparisons I make between the two are....

You have (some) religious people who try and convert people to their way of thinking.
Then you have (some) atheists trying to deconvert people to their way of thinking.

You have influential people in the world of religion who religious people follow.
In atheism there is intelligent people who people follow/agree with (dawkins for example)

I called scientists "the new prophets" because religious prophets speak on behalf of god...... scientists speak on behalf of the universe/knowledge.

Hm...
I agree, if i had have sad, i belief there is no god, thats pretty much a belief-system.
But that is not what i just say.
I say, i didn't belief in god.
I didn't rejected the the whole god-supernatural-issue, i say there is no evidence, so, i do not belief in god or the supernatural.
This is a big difference, because you can come to this conclusion by using simple logical argumentes.
I first encounter the possebility not to belief, and then i find some other people how stated the same claim.
So i learned about Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dillahunty and many more.
But they are not prophets.
They are not talking in the behalf of science or the universe, they are trying to explain how science and the universe working.
A prophet stands in the middel of a mob and tells you about something thats happend in thousend Years, or whats the afterlive looks like.
He is guessing his ass of.
A scientist whold make a prognosis, based on the evidence he is aware of, but he whold not state a unprovable claim.
Why should he?
A scientist is interested in the question how, not in the question why.
That is because the how-question solves a problem in the understanding of things,
the why-Question is a attempt to give things an order in human thingpattens.

I never trying to deconvert people from its belief, because its a useless business, better say its an impossible task.
If you look to former beliefers they become atheists and listen to there storys, you will find out, that all of them are deconverting by itself.
The dought came from the difference between religion and reality.
Religions claims are so high, so impossibel to reach, so oviously wrong.
They decided to live in the reality, because they want to get rid of these boring allmighty-allseeing-all and everthing-knowing BS, thats oppressed every free thought in an instand, because its fits not to the book.
Atheists are defending there standpoint against religious people and organisations because they are accusing us in many ways.
We are in fakt a pain in the ass of religion because we don't exept claims without evidence.
Religion is a matter of belief and faith, Atheism is a matter of thought and reason, based on fakts and evidence.
And so, as far as I'm concerned, atheism is not a religion.

But let me made a little propethy, right her.
If you are an beliefer, your next words are: Yes, but...
And thats the whole business of deconverting beliefers.

As my favorit Prophet Richard Dawkins once stated: They don't even listen, what they doing is, they sticking there fingers in the ears and making lalalalalalalalalala.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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03-09-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
(03-09-2012 01:05 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 10:53 AM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  Ok, lets give it one more shot.

You say, you just want to compair belief-systems...
Not quite sure how to put it...
I say, Atheisum is not a belief-system, it is the opposite.
It meens, i have the lack of belief/faith in god.
Otherwise, an atheist has to say: I belief, that i don't belief in god.
Instead he always say: I didn't belief in god.
In that case "didn't belief" meens no belief what so ever.
Maybe this is the point, were we agree to disagree.
What do you think? (caution, i wrote think, not belief, just to make a difference)

Im glad you gave it one more shot Big Grin

I can see why you say atheism is the opposite of religion..... however in my view the belief that there is no god, is still a belief in itself.

A few comparisons I make between the two are....

You have (some) religious people who try and convert people to their way of thinking.
Then you have (some) atheists trying to deconvert people to their way of thinking.

You have influential people in the world of religion who religious people follow.
In atheism there is intelligent people who people follow/agree with (dawkins for example)

I called scientists "the new prophets" because religious prophets speak on behalf of god...... scientists speak on behalf of the universe/knowledge.

It's not about knowledge, it's about faith vs. evidence. I am an atheist not because I make a claim about the nature of things, but because I see no evidence for the claim that there is a god. My atheism is not a positive belief, it is not knowledge, it is a conclusion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-09-2012, 09:36 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
(02-09-2012 03:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As my very wise friend, ^^^ Kim taught me, and once said, "if you pull the rug out from under someone, they may fall. If you lead them to the edge, they can step off". The deconstruction of a worldview is complex, and multi dimensional. Each point in the complex construction of the worldview is related to each of the others, as shown in these.




Once again you've put in front of me a truly wonderful video (pretty sure it was you who posted Lawrence Krauss at AII in 2009 talking about "A Universe from Nothing", which launched me into my current 'OMG science is awesom yay' thing). This fellow explains in great detail, with a very calm voice and from a(n originally) religious viewpoint, how he came to lose his faith. I'll be sharing this with theists and atheists alike. I think it's in-depth and also gentle enough to perhaps penetrate the minds of some of the staunchest believers. To get them to just think about it, you know. Smile

Thanks!

"The amazing thing is that every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. ... So, forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today." -- Lawrence Krauss
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03-09-2012, 09:55 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
1) Neil may claim that he's no atheist but he's as fervently anti-theistic as they come (just do some quick searches on Reddit or YouTube regarding his stance on teaching the creation myth as fact, etc.)

2) I literally just got into a similar conversation with a colleague from the industry that I work in. We used the tooth fairy as a proxy for the god concept and he asked me why I or anyone else should spend anytime discrediting the idea that tooth fairy is real. I explained that the second someone uses the toothy fairy as the basis for denying children the right to learn scientific concepts like evolution, or denying women's rights (or any other group's civil rights) or mass murder I'd immediately get to work on debunking the tooth fairy because it would be the ethical thing to do.

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03-09-2012, 10:09 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
Same reason for being an activist anything.

Wanting social change... In this regard concerning the treatment of religion/atheism class that exists in political power and common conversation.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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04-09-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
(02-09-2012 09:51 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  There is a conflict within me.

Do I let people keep their coping mechanism for death/religion. Or make them face the realities of life?

You don't make anyone do anything. You supply them with the tools, and then it is all up to them.

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04-09-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
I do not debate but I am active as an atheist. As in formal debates in our community.

The point is to be there for my fellow atheist and be apart of our local community.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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04-09-2012, 12:53 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
Okay, this thread was a lot more popular than I originally expected. Thanks for the posts guys Smile Well, you knocked some sense into me. I especially like what DLJ said about the Hitchens debates, and a whole other people saying that we need to get people thinking etc etc.

It just seems like being active is just like being some LDS nut trying to spread his gospel, although it really isn't.

Howeever, it seems debating is pointless. I have heard of any debate where the theist was so set back that they actually admitted they were wrong. Debating with creationists is like worse, it's like talking to a wall.
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04-09-2012, 01:20 PM
RE: Why is the point of being an active atheist?
Nice resümee (summary).
It was fun to read the post's and made a post by myself.

I like to make an add to your last post if you don't mind.
You will never see an Atheist spreading the idea's of atheism to an theist-audience.
That is the job of reality.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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