What is the role of a government?
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17-03-2012, 11:23 PM
What is the role of a government?
Here's what being under a government costs me.

-They get to decide rules without my consent and threaten me with imprisonment if I don't abide by these rules.

-They take lots of money out of each of my earned paychecks.

-They tell me what I can and can't put into my body and what I can and can't say and do, restricting my personal liberties.

-Not only do they impose rules and regulations on me, they feed me a stream of misinformation and smoke screens so that they themselves can exploit these rules for personal gain, effectively stealing my money and my freedoms from me.



Now what do I get in return?

-The illusion of safety via military. I get promised that I am safe because our military won't let anyone attack me. There are 311 million citizens of the United States, each one (minus the babies, cripples, and elderly) a potential defender of this country. The plus side of having a populace turned militia rather than a sustained military is that we ensure the safety of our country without having the possibility of global occupation. We are people who live here with guns. We wouldn't deploy outside the US because it's not our job or our business.

-Fire and police departments. Personally, I don't need a police force to "defend me." I am a 230 pound man with a gun. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself. And as far as fire, there are more volunteer fire fighters than paid fire fighters in my home town. If we actually cared about each other, we would put out our neighbor's house fire.

-Transportation, electric, and water. These I think we should keep. Though I don't need a government for this. Just charge me an annual fee for the upkeep of these services.

-Health care. I don't have health insurance. I have never had health insurance in 29 years of living. Because the types of jobs I work don't provide health insurance. So the option of going to a hospital has never been there for me because the government does not provide this service in a manner that most people can use. And when they try to, they get accused of socialism.



I feel like the give and get relationship with my government is weighed pretty heavily toward the give side and not so much the get. It just seems like people could do a lot better and live a lot more free if they simply looked out for each other and actively worked to improve their community.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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17-03-2012, 11:54 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2012 12:00 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: What is the role of a government?
#1 and #3 are the same thing.
#4 is more like a conspiracy theory load of crap.
#2 is written with such bias it sounds like they are robbing you.

Actually the whole thing is just flamboyantly spewing bias from every orifice, especially the posterior one.

I think I found the problem,
"It just seems like people could do a lot better and live a lot more free if they simply looked out for each other and actively worked to improve their community. "

That is a utopian fantasy.
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18-03-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: What is the role of a government?
Governments job should be to ensure all of it's citizens live decently.
That includes universal healthcare,welfare,public services,housing etc...
It should not interfere with their personal lives,but has a right to interfere with their economic ''freedom''.

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
-Karl Marx


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18-03-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: What is the role of a government?
In my opinion the role of government ought to be that of a trusted representative of society as opposed to an autonomous ruler.

I gladly give up some of my abilities such that I can live in a functional and stable society. This means I give up my own ability to rape, murder and pilage such that in return noone has the legal ability to rape, murder or pilage myself.

As a society we need some rules as we cohabitate and interact with each other. But when a government imposes rules that do not operate towards the goal of a stable and functional society then people will be oppressed and this may cause conflict and instability in society.

Laws based on moral grounds only are unacceptable (whose morals is it that is going to be imposed on society?) Adults in society want to make their own choices they do not want to be oppressed.

When it comes to money governments are terribly inefficient, they have no accountability and hence a large proportion of money is wasted.
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19-03-2012, 08:03 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
Buddy Christ Wrote:Personally, I don't need a police force to "defend me." I am a 230 pound man with a gun. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

I have a lot of respect for you man and that comment is not worthy of you. One, if there was no law enforcement you would be unlikely to defend yourself on your own simply because you have a gun. Two, that suggests that anyone incapable of defending themselves isn't deserving of protection, do you really think that?

Buddy Christ Wrote:It just seems like people could do a lot better and live a lot more free if they simply looked out for each other and actively worked to improve their community.

I can't agree with that. If history and society have shown us anything it's that people tend to do what is best for themselves.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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20-03-2012, 02:03 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
(19-03-2012 08:03 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
Buddy Christ Wrote:Personally, I don't need a police force to "defend me." I am a 230 pound man with a gun. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

I have a lot of respect for you man and that comment is not worthy of you. One, if there was no law enforcement you would be unlikely to defend yourself on your own simply because you have a gun. Two, that suggests that anyone incapable of defending themselves isn't deserving of protection, do you really think that?

That wasn't my alternative theory for a national police force, I was just quipping that I personally am just dandy and would like to opt out of this mandatory protection. Again, I believe the community would protect itself. Besides, people are just people. There aren't roving gangs of rapists forming packs and moving from house to house. After the initial shock that there is no police (and possibly some LA riots type looting), people would realize that they need to come together and place their trust in each other if they want to maintain the peace.


Quote:
Buddy Christ Wrote:It just seems like people could do a lot better and live a lot more free if they simply looked out for each other and actively worked to improve their community.

I can't agree with that. If history and society have shown us anything it's that people tend to do what is best for themselves.

It can be argued that what's best for the individual IS what's best for the group. After all, the converse is communism, where the group is left with equal shares of the bare minimum. Instead of a few people enjoying a whole slice of pie, everyone has so little pie that no one gets to enjoy it.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-03-2012, 02:21 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
It's odd how you say people could live in peace without a police force but in the same post you advocate for a competitive economy system. I can't see that working out very well, without a police force poor people would be stealing (to say the least) to rich people and everything would be chaotic.

In an utopia eveyone is peaceful and everyone works hard so the proverbial pie is enough for everybody, a Zeitgeist kind of society, that would be awesome. But I can't see this happening any time soon.

Even if we got enough resources for everyone, laws and therefore law enforcement would still be necessary, as a law student I agree that if we had enough for everybody to have a equal and sufficient share of resources to have a more than decent life, then half of the law books would be ancient history, but there are more problems than just money problems in every society: Family laws besides alimony has nothing to do with money, privacy, free speech, some kinds of violence, etc. are all issues that can't be solved by giving people material goods.
And to solve those issues we need a government, otherwise we would live in a legal uncertainty which usually leads to more chaos.

I understand your frustration with government, but as long as we maintain a system that puts competition over cooperation as values we won't find a solution to our societies issues, because that's what society is supposed to be, a cooperative group of people, not a bunch of individuals fighting for resources, that's the definition of war.

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20-03-2012, 02:43 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
This is all for the sake of discussion, by the by. If I won a contest where I got to single handedly decide whether the police stay or go, I wouldn't be foolish enough to get rid of them. I don't want people to think, "Oh there goes Buddy Christ, he advocates a lawless free-for-all of civilian tribes." I was in Iraq, after all. Where lawlessness breeds corruption and violence on a daily basis. But there's no harm in bringing up ideas for discussion.

If you want to know my actual stance of the state of our police force... memes convey it quite nicely.

[Image: 6380328209_e3a913c869.jpg]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-03-2012, 06:57 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
This is the role of all government:

Quote:.... they simply looked out for each other and actively worked to improve their community.

The various forms and structures and ideological bases of government, how well or badly each works, which group owns and runs and benefits from each kind, is a different set of questions. Those things depend on the people who participate - and the ones who don't.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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20-03-2012, 07:00 AM
RE: What is the role of a government?
Ideally:

The government represents the people. The money you give them does not belong to them, but to the collective society. The people should decide what happens to it, just as they should decide what laws govern them, and what wars they fight.

In practise:
What Buddy Christ said.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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