What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
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16-11-2013, 10:24 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
This has probably already been covered and I missed it, but what does the op think causes AIDS if not the HIV virus? What is the point of arguing it so vehemently either way? It seems like there is some kind of agenda here but I can't decipher it.

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16-11-2013, 10:43 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 08:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  You must be referring to your faith and not science. Nobel prize winner for molecular biology kary Mullins
http://youtu.be/IifgAvXU3ts.

Mullis is not a virologist and most virologists agree that HIV-I and HIV-II cause AIDS. Citing Mullis' credentials makes no difference because there are many more people with advanced degrees in virology that disagree with Mullis.

Also Mullis won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1993 for developing the Polymerase Chain Reaction Method--a method for copying small segments of DNA--not for demonstrating that AIDS is not caused by HIV.

Having a MB BS from a crappy Tasmanian university or being a Nobel Laureate doesn't magically give someone the ability to have an unmediated relationship with The Truth. Mullis simply has no evidence for his outlandish claims and his hypothesis provides an inferior explanation of observed reality.

Incidentally, Mullis believes in the validity of astrology. Is astrology valid because Mullis says so?
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16-11-2013, 10:44 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 10:24 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  This has probably already been covered and I missed it, but what does the op think causes AIDS if not the HIV virus? What is the point of arguing it so vehemently either way? It seems like there is some kind of agenda here but I can't decipher it.

This is I&I's M.O. he always plays coy at declaring his position so he can snipe at everyone. Here is a great breakdown of his antics.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...you-by-I-I

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16-11-2013, 10:50 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 08:58 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science is amazing....

Yes it is and you are trying to make a villain out of a hero.
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17-11-2013, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2013 12:07 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 09:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 02:31 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I guess. I just wondered if there was some weird biblical prophesy that HIV was wrecking, or something.

The HIV/AIDS denialists are a motley bunch (and incidentally most of them are not virologists) but I haven't seen any with a Christian/Biblical agenda. The most common broader agenda is the "Big Pharma" conspiracy. That the HIV-AIDS connection was cooked up by "Big Pharma" to sell anti-retroviral drugs. This constituency of denialists conveniently ignores that the life expectancy of those that are HIV positive has increased since the now standard antiretroviral therapy regimen was introduced.[1][2]

The "Big Pharma" conspiracy theorists are typically opportunistic and will leap on anything that they believe will further their Quixotic quest: vaccines, antidepressants, CNS stimulants, antipsychotics, statins. Underneath their conspiratorial imaginings is usually a devotion to some form of bullshit which they assert is superior to mainstream pharmacotherapy, e.g. homeopathy, orgone therapy, Reiki therapy, Neuro-Linguistic Programming or orthomolecular psychiatry (as per our beloved Dr Fulton).

Ironically you could legitimately target big Pharma for something like...ohh I dunno...knowingly allowing Prozac to be prescribed to teens before doing adequate testing and after years of associated suicides before it was even black boxed.... or really the whole childhood anti-psychotic, anti-anxiety, anti-depessant, speed cocktail phenomena that continues on today...

...But instead we gets AIDs denial and this sort of drivel. It's a shame how often nut job conspiracy theories eclipse real issues.

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17-11-2013, 12:11 AM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 10:43 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 08:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  You must be referring to your faith and not science. Nobel prize winner for molecular biology kary Mullins
http://youtu.be/IifgAvXU3ts.

Mullis is not a virologist and most virologists agree that HIV-I and HIV-II cause AIDS. Citing Mullis' credentials makes no difference because there are many more people with advanced degrees in virology that disagree with Mullis.

Also Mullis won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1993 for developing the Polymerase Chain Reaction Method--a method for copying small segments of DNA--not for demonstrating that AIDS is not caused by HIV.

Having a MB BS from a crappy Tasmanian university or being a Nobel Laureate doesn't magically give someone the ability to have an unmediated relationship with The Truth. Mullis simply has no evidence for his outlandish claims and his hypothesis provides an inferior explanation of observed reality.

Incidentally, Mullis believes in the validity of astrology. Is astrology valid because Mullis says so?

Yeah that's cool, that logic isn't legit. Just because someone believes x doesn't mean he can't be correct in beliefs in Y. The fact that you use that logic to dismiss his claims about HIV without even looking at what he says about HIV speaks volumes.
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17-11-2013, 12:13 AM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(17-11-2013 12:03 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 09:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  The HIV/AIDS denialists are a motley bunch (and incidentally most of them are not virologists) but I haven't seen any with a Christian/Biblical agenda. The most common broader agenda is the "Big Pharma" conspiracy. That the HIV-AIDS connection was cooked up by "Big Pharma" to sell anti-retroviral drugs. This constituency of denialists conveniently ignores that the life expectancy of those that are HIV positive has increased since the now standard antiretroviral therapy regimen was introduced.[1][2]

The "Big Pharma" conspiracy theorists are typically opportunistic and will leap on anything that they believe will further their Quixotic quest: vaccines, antidepressants, CNS stimulants, antipsychotics, statins. Underneath their conspiratorial imaginings is usually a devotion to some form of bullshit which they assert is superior to mainstream pharmacotherapy, e.g. homeopathy, orgone therapy, Reiki therapy, Neuro-Linguistic Programming or orthomolecular psychiatry (as per our beloved Dr Fulton).

Ironically you could legitimately target big Pharma for something like...ohh I dunno...knowingly allowing Prozac to be prescribed to teens before doing adequate testing and after years of associated suicides before it was even black boxed.... or really the whole childhood anti-psychotic, anti-anxiety, anti-depessant, speed cocktail phenomena that continues on today...

...But instead we gets AIDs denial and this sort of drivel. It's a shame how often nut job conspiracy theories eclipse real issues.

Let's make a bet, I will start a topic about that and I am betting that they will call what you just mentioned a conspiracy theory.
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17-11-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(17-11-2013 12:13 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 12:03 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Ironically you could legitimately target big Pharma for something like...ohh I dunno...knowingly allowing Prozac to be prescribed to teens before doing adequate testing and after years of associated suicides before it was even black boxed.... or really the whole childhood anti-psychotic, anti-anxiety, anti-depessant, speed cocktail phenomena that continues on today...

...But instead we gets AIDs denial and this sort of drivel. It's a shame how often nut job conspiracy theories eclipse real issues.

Let's make a bet, I will start a topic about that and I am betting that they will call what you just mentioned a conspiracy theory.

Would be an interesting experiment.

Post this. I doubt anyone will accuse you of conspiracy lunacy unless you manage to somehow incorporate a communist rant against the Jews or something like that.

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17-11-2013, 01:43 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(17-11-2013 12:11 AM)I and I Wrote:  Yeah that's cool, that logic isn't legit. Just because someone believes x doesn't mean he can't be correct in beliefs in Y. The fact that you use that logic to dismiss his claims about HIV without even looking at what he says about HIV speaks volumes.

You are misrepresenting what I posted.
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17-11-2013, 03:48 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(16-11-2013 09:23 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 09:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I doesn't matter what any ONE person does. It's called "forest for the trees" Idiot^2.
Science IS amazing. What are NOT amazing are all your red herrings.
Sorry, if it's messy and complicated. When you get big, mommy will explain life if messy.
Waaaa waaaa waaaa.
What ? One of your science teachers flunked you, and you're forever pissed off ?

So your response to Robert Gallo and head of human health services announcing in a press conference that the cause of AIDS has been found....BEFORE any peer review of his papers gets you to make fun of me, instead of admitting that Gallo went about that all wrong.

You must not hold peer review as important in that case?

Wrong again,
King-of-the-Passive-Aggressive-Thread-Starters-Extraordinaire-puts-words-in-people's-mouth.
It is important, *eventually*. He ADMITTED he had not proceeded in the best way, (which you ignore, so you can continue to whine about your red herring).
Because that's your MO.
Did you ever mention where you went to school ?
Do you have a GED ?
Are you an inpatient or an outpatient ?

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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