What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
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13-11-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 10:19 AM)I and I Wrote:  There are ways to isolate and show that a virus exists, has anyone proven that the HIV virus exists? What methods did they use?

The same methods used to isolate, y'know, every other virus known.

So there's that.

Are you for real?

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13-11-2013, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2013 11:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 10:19 AM)I and I Wrote:  There is no anti-body count that is specific to any disease or virus, anti-bodies fluctuate for many reasons. What is the anti-body count that is associated with HIV?

Incontrovertible PROOF you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
an·ti·bod·y ˈantiˌbädē/
nounnoun: antibody;plural noun: antibodies 1.
a blood protein produced in response to and counteracting a specific antigen. Antibodies combine chemically with substances that the body recognizes as alien, such as bacteria, viruses, and foreign substances in the blood.
http://www.news-medical.net/health/Antib...ibody.aspx
EVERY antibody, (as ANY Immunology 101 student knows) IS antigen specific and titres of it can be counted.
ANY amount of the SPECIFIC antibody can indicate the presence of HIV. How can you ask for a "count" if there is no such thing ?
Antibody concentration determination (levels) is what is done ALL DAY EVERY DAY in Immunology labs, all over the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody_titer
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/...rview.html
Antibodies do not "fluctuate" and your stating they do with no reference, and no proof is absolutely WORTHLESS, as you are one of THE MOST IGNORANT people on TTA. If you say anything IS, the probability is, it ISN'T. CD4 counts do not "fluctuate" (as in NEVER EVER AND you cannot name ONE process or disease in which it actually happens), from 600/800 down to 2, or even 0. THAT is a destruction process which occurs ONLY in T-helper cells, with HIV. It reverses ONLY with anti-retroviral medication, specific to HIV RNA which is further specified by further RNA specification tests for further specificity, before being prescribed.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0706135
http://www.healthcentral.com/encyclopedi...?ic=506048
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis_of_HIV/AIDS
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/testcent...tbDNA_v3.0

As usual, you're spouting lies through your ass, and have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
Post NOTHING else, without a reference.

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13-11-2013, 11:29 AM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2013 11:48 AM by kim.)
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
Genetic research indicates that HIV originated in west-central Africa during the early twentieth century. It is a lentivirus which means it is a slowly replicating retrovirus. Many species are infected by lentiviruses, which are characteristically responsible for long-duration illnesses with a long incubation period.

Forgive the brevity here, I'm rusty on this shit but thanks to wikipedia, my old biology files, and a lot of copy/paste, it went a little faster. I tried not to leave anything out but I think making it a little easier to read makes it more understandable and interesting for all, artists and truck drivers alike. Wink

Lentiviruses are transmitted as single-stranded, positive-sense, enveloped RNA viruses. Here is a very basic rundown of how they work to infect a host.

Upon entry into a target cell, the viral RNA genome is converted (reverse transcribed) into double-stranded DNA by a virally encoded reverse transcriptase, which is an enzyme used to generate complementary DNA (cDNA) from an RNA template, all that is transported along with the viral genome in the virus particle. The resulting viral DNA is then imported into the cell nucleus and integrated into the cellular DNA by a virally encoded enzyme or integrase and host co-factors. The host co-factors aid in concealment.

Once integrated, the virus may become latent, allowing the virus and its host cell to avoid detection by the immune system. Alternatively, the virus may be transcribed, producing new RNA genomes and viral proteins that are packaged and released from the cell as new virus particles that begin the replication cycle all over again. Replication cycle is repeated over time while continuing to remain undetected.
***
HIV-1 is the virus that was initially discovered. It is more virulent more infective and is the cause of the majority of HIV infections globally. HIV-2 is mostly confined to West Africa where ignorance has kept it consistently thriving even though it has a relatively poor capacity for transmission.
***
In 1984, Robert Gallo and his collaborators published a series of four papers in the scientific journal Science demonstrating that a retrovirus they had isolated, called HTLV-III in the belief that the virus was related to the leukemia viruses of Gallo's earlier work, was the cause of AIDS. A French team at the Pasteur Institute in France, previously published a paper in Science in 1983, describing a retrovirus they called LAV (lymphadenopathy associated virus), isolated from a patient at risk for AIDS.
Gallo was awarded his second Lasker Award in 1986 for "determining that the retrovirus now known as HIV-1 is the cause of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). In 1995, Gallo published his discovery that chemokines, a class of naturally occurring compounds, can block HIV and halt the progression of AIDS.
***

ALL of this shit can be found online.
Here and here and if anyone wants to read about detection screening and immunoblot go here.

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13-11-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
Perhaps we should play along for a while. Our beloved OP rarely if ever finishes a thought, but you never know.

If, instead of "consistent, self-reinforcing, and repeatable scientific evidence", we rather pretend that everything known about the purported HIV virus is instead attributable to "lol conspiracy"...

Who is doing so? And why?

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13-11-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 11:38 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Perhaps we should play along for a while. Our beloved OP rarely if ever finishes a thought, but you never know.

If, instead of "consistent, self-reinforcing, and repeatable scientific evidence", we rather pretend that everything known about the purported HIV virus is instead attributable to "lol conspiracy"...

Who is doing so? And why?

Ha - yea. I think that the unknown can bring out a lot of different emotional reactions in people; suspicion, paranoia, fear. General hysteria can leave a lot of bullshit piled on to misunderstood research, so that no one remains to know or even care what the hell is going on. It just distracts everyone from everything... including something that could very well be important or at least interesting.

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13-11-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
I'm not knowledgeable at all in the life sciences, so I did a little research after I read I&I's initial question. In no time I found a multitude of articles -some dating back to the late 80's- about how the virus could be isolated for study. A few key strokes later I found electron micrographs of the actual virus, and a few clicks later I found the entire HIV genome posted online as early as of 2002. Seems if you have "something" to extract genetic material from, that "something" has to exist.
I'm just going to provide the link to the main website of the U.S. National Library of Medicine. I found dozens of articles there and it would be impractical to try to provide references to all.

The fact there are HIV "deniers" is a complete surprise to me. A few years back a called the moon hoaxers the bottom of the conspiracy-theorist nut barrel. I feel I need to go back and apologize.
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13-11-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 12:39 PM)Bwolf74 Wrote:  The fact there are HIV "deniers" is a complete surprise to me. A few years back a called the moon hoaxers the bottom of the conspiracy-theorist nut barrel. I feel I need to go back and apologize.

There are a number of people who deny the HIV-AIDS link. That's a *ahem* "theory" I've heard before. But it is the purview of the very, very special to actually claim that HIV does not exist.

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13-11-2013, 01:04 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
Yea - I'd never heard that it didn't exist - that's a new one on me, too. So much for my education. Dodgy

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13-11-2013, 02:33 PM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 11:38 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Perhaps we should play along for a while. Our beloved OP rarely if ever finishes a thought, but you never know.

If, instead of "consistent, self-reinforcing, and repeatable scientific evidence", we rather pretend that everything known about the purported HIV virus is instead attributable to "lol conspiracy"...

Who is doing so? And why?

Who is saying it is a conspiracy?
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13-11-2013, 02:51 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2013 02:55 PM by I and I.)
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 11:29 AM)kim Wrote:  Genetic research indicates that HIV originated in west-central Africa during the early twentieth century. It is a lentivirus which means it is a slowly replicating retrovirus. Many species are infected by lentiviruses, which are characteristically responsible for long-duration illnesses with a long incubation period.

Forgive the brevity here, I'm rusty on this shit but thanks to wikipedia, my old biology files, and a lot of copy/paste, it went a little faster. I tried not to leave anything out but I think making it a little easier to read makes it more understandable and interesting for all, artists and truck drivers alike. Wink

Lentiviruses are transmitted as single-stranded, positive-sense, enveloped RNA viruses. Here is a very basic rundown of how they work to infect a host.

Upon entry into a target cell, the viral RNA genome is converted (reverse transcribed) into double-stranded DNA by a virally encoded reverse transcriptase, which is an enzyme used to generate complementary DNA (cDNA) from an RNA template, all that is transported along with the viral genome in the virus particle. The resulting viral DNA is then imported into the cell nucleus and integrated into the cellular DNA by a virally encoded enzyme or integrase and host co-factors. The host co-factors aid in concealment.

Once integrated, the virus may become latent, allowing the virus and its host cell to avoid detection by the immune system. Alternatively, the virus may be transcribed, producing new RNA genomes and viral proteins that are packaged and released from the cell as new virus particles that begin the replication cycle all over again. Replication cycle is repeated over time while continuing to remain undetected.
***
HIV-1 is the virus that was initially discovered. It is more virulent more infective and is the cause of the majority of HIV infections globally. HIV-2 is mostly confined to West Africa where ignorance has kept it consistently thriving even though it has a relatively poor capacity for transmission.
***
In 1984, Robert Gallo and his collaborators published a series of four papers in the scientific journal Science demonstrating that a retrovirus they had isolated, called HTLV-III in the belief that the virus was related to the leukemia viruses of Gallo's earlier work, was the cause of AIDS. A French team at the Pasteur Institute in France, previously published a paper in Science in 1983, describing a retrovirus they called LAV (lymphadenopathy associated virus), isolated from a patient at risk for AIDS.
Gallo was awarded his second Lasker Award in 1986 for "determining that the retrovirus now known as HIV-1 is the cause of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). In 1995, Gallo published his discovery that chemokines, a class of naturally occurring compounds, can block HIV and halt the progression of AIDS.
***

ALL of this shit can be found online.
Here and here and if anyone wants to read about detection screening and immunoblot go here.

Reverse transcriptease are non specific to retro viruses, finding reverse transcriptease doesn't prove the existence of a virus.
Robert Gallo said so in one of his papers before he supposedly found HIV, that reverse are not specific to viruses.
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