What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
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13-11-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 02:33 PM)I and I Wrote:  Who is saying it is a conspiracy?

You are, champ.

Remember the part where it's not real?

Because if that's the case, there are an awful lot of people whose claims, work, and publications say literally the exact opposite of that.

Why?

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13-11-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
I just had to make this
[Image: e7d0c9b628a4ab9b6babd3697490fd48.png]
Yes, it's made in MS Paint, deal with it.

[Image: 9f6.gif]
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13-11-2013, 03:05 PM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 02:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 02:33 PM)I and I Wrote:  Who is saying it is a conspiracy?

You are, champ.

Remember the part where it's not real?

Because if that's the case, there are an awful lot of people whose claims, work, and publications say literally the exact opposite of that.

Why?

Do you know how the HIV virus was supposedly found? You are claiming it is real so I assume you know the jargon and the methods used.
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13-11-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 03:05 PM)I and I Wrote:  Do you know how the HIV virus was supposedly found? You are claiming it is real so I assume you know the jargon and the methods used.

Guy.

It's really not that hard to internet.

It's not my job to explain to you how other people do their jobs, even if you legitimately are so deficient you can't find out for yourself.

But you are the one denying an existing claim. So, y'know. Maybe you can substantiate that a little bit?

Or, since I was leaving that aside to consider the implications, you could develop the consequences of HIV not being real? You're not very good at going anywhere with your asinine rhetorical questions, but could you try? For me? I mean, there are lots of people who seem to think they're studying HIV. If, apparently, HIV doesn't exist, then what exactly are they doing with their time?

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13-11-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  Reverse transcriptease are non specific to retro viruses
Please explain - I'm not sure what you mean by "non specific". Perhaps you misunderstand the classifications. HIV is a member of the genus Lentivirus which is part of the family Retroviridae.

(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  finding reverse transcriptease doesn't prove the existence of a virus.
Gallo, his colleges, and the French team who, nearly simultaneously yet separately, produced at least five papers total upon this classification of virus and the uniqueness of enveloped RNA virus.

(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  Robert Gallo said so in one of his papers before he supposedly found HIV, that reverse are not specific to viruses.
There are at least four papers that I know of, maybe I missed it, please provide the link to this paper and where Gallo described his ideas of virally encoded reverse transcriptase from an RNA template. I would also want to see similar endorsement from the French team, since their paper was published a year prior to the Gallo team's series of papers.

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13-11-2013, 04:20 PM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 03:57 PM)kim Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  Reverse transcriptease are non specific to retro viruses
Please explain - I'm not sure what you mean by "non specific". Perhaps you misunderstand the classifications. HIV is a member of the genus Lentivirus which is part of the family Retroviridae.

(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  finding reverse transcriptease doesn't prove the existence of a virus.
Gallo, his colleges, and the French team who, nearly simultaneously yet separately, produced at least five papers total upon this classification of virus and the uniqueness of enveloped RNA virus.

(13-11-2013 02:51 PM)I and I Wrote:  Robert Gallo said so in one of his papers before he supposedly found HIV, that reverse are not specific to viruses.
There are at least four papers that I know of, maybe I missed it, please provide the link to this paper and where Gallo described his ideas of virally encoded reverse transcriptase from an RNA template. I would also want to see similar endorsement from the French team, since their paper was published a year prior to the Gallo team's series of papers.

I will find that paper online.... However you do know that the French team lead doctor sued gallo for stealing their work, AND you do know that Luc Montanier ( however his name is spelled) doesn't believe HIV is deadly or that big if a deal, he says it can be treated by things such as healthy eating. You do know that he believes this right?
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13-11-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
HIV is believed to have originated in non-human primates in West-central Africa and to have transferred to humans in the early 20th century (c1910). HIV-1 appears to have originated in southern Cameroon through the evolution of SIVc a simian immunodeficiency virus that infects wild chimpanzees.
SIVc is a weak virus, and it is typically suppressed by the human immune system within weeks of infection. It is thought that several transmissions of the virus from individual to individual in quick succession is necessary to allow it enough time to mutate into HIV.

As well, due to its relatively low person-to-person transmission rate, it can only spread throughout the population in the presence of one or more of high-risk transmission channels, which are thought to have been absent in Africa prior to the 20th century. HIV-1 is thought to have jumped the species barrier on at least three separate occasions, giving rise to the three groups of the virus, M, N, and O.

Here's something interesting - monkeys in N & S America, such as the Owl Monkey are resistant to HIV-1 infection. This may be possible because of a genomic fusion of two viral resistance genes.

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13-11-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 04:20 PM)I and I Wrote:  However you do know that the French team lead doctor sued gallo for stealing their work, AND you do know that Luc Montanier ( however his name is spelled) doesn't believe HIV is deadly or that big if a deal, he says it can be treated by things such as healthy eating. You do know that he believes this right?

I don't keep up with who sues whom or for what but, I have to wonder why Montagnier would sue Gallo for stealing his work when HIV "isn't deadly or that big of a deal". I would never put words like that into a scientist's mouth.

Montagnier's findings initially contradicted the findings of Gallo's team. In January 1985 a number of more detailed reports were published concerning LAV and HTLV-III, and by March it was clear that the viruses were the same, were from the same source, and were the etiological agent of AIDS.

Together with his colleague Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, Montagnier was awarded one half of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his "discovery of human immunodeficiency virus". Montagnier said he was "surprised" Gallo was not recognized by the Nobel Committee: "It was important to prove that HIV was the cause of AIDS, and Gallo had a very important role in that. I'm very sorry for Robert Gallo." - from "Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine: HIV, HPV researchers honored, but one scientist is left out". Science

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13-11-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
I&I - What is exactly your claim?

That the HIV virus does not exist? That the HIV virus does exist, but does not cause AIDS? or that the methods for determining if a person has acquired the virus are faulty?

While I do not pretend to understand the methodology or even the nomenclature in the following references, I find them very convincing evidence of the existence of the virus.
If these are not real, prey tell what are we looking at. And please let the researchers know they have been barking up the wrong tree for decades now! If you can do that I see a Nobel price in your future for sure.

I personally know someone who suffers from AIDS and is under a very tough drug regime to suppress the disease. What should he tell his doctor?
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13-11-2013, 05:04 PM
What is the scientific evidence for the existence of HIV?
(13-11-2013 04:53 PM)kim Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 04:20 PM)I and I Wrote:  However you do know that the French team lead doctor sued gallo for stealing their work, AND you do know that Luc Montanier ( however his name is spelled) doesn't believe HIV is deadly or that big if a deal, he says it can be treated by things such as healthy eating. You do know that he believes this right?

I don't keep up with who sues whom or for what but, I have to wonder why Montagnier would sue Gallo for stealing his work when HIV "isn't deadly or that big of a deal". I would never put words like that into a scientist's mouth.

Montagnier's findings initially contradicted the findings of Gallo's team. In January 1985 a number of more detailed reports were published concerning LAV and HTLV-III, and by March it was clear that the viruses were the same, were from the same source, and were the etiological agent of AIDS.

Together with his colleague Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, Montagnier was awarded one half of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his "discovery of human immunodeficiency virus". Montagnier said he was "surprised" Gallo was not recognized by the Nobel Committee: "It was important to prove that HIV was the cause of AIDS, and Gallo had a very important role in that. I'm very sorry for Robert Gallo." - from "Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine: HIV, HPV researchers honored, but one scientist is left out". Science

Gallos paper is cited and quoted between 12:28-12:46 of this video
http://youtu.be/PQFxratWh7E reverse transcriptease are common and non specific to viruses according to gallo in 1973.
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