What is the worst argument for God?
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07-04-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 08:20 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "I had laid down to go to bed one night, starting to doze off, then all of a sudden...there He was....in full body...shining in a light I had never seen before...super bright, brilliant and yet it did not hurt my eyes."

I can't make this shit up.

I think this link is sufficient for explaining that one.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-04-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 09:30 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  "Because the Bible says so."

Checkmate, atheists.

Agreed. Frusty I gotta book about fairies you should read then, bible salesman!

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07-04-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 09:41 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 08:20 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "I had laid down to go to bed one night, starting to doze off, then all of a sudden...there He was....in full body...shining in a light I had never seen before...super bright, brilliant and yet it did not hurt my eyes."

I can't make this shit up.

I think this link is sufficient for explaining that one.

Probably, but the author, a one TheJCexperiment, new to the forum and replacing PleezeJeebus is attacking Egor! I won't have it...
Actually I can't wait for this pissing contest to go into full bloomBig Grin

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-04-2013, 09:58 PM
 
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 04:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Title says it all people. What is your favourite bad argument for the existence of a Deity? There are some real crackers out there so it's difficult to narrow it down but I think I've finally got my favourite.

The Design Argument

This is my favourite because, not only does it attempt to solve a problem by creating a bigger problem, when you point this out to a theist they tend to respond by refuting their own argument themselves and still thinking they've won. According to the Design Argument, the universe is too complex to exist without a creator. Design Theory proponents claim that you have to have something more complex to create something less complex. Therefore, there must be something more complex than the world to have created it. That something is God. Firstly, this leads to the question, what created God? By the terms of the Design Argument, God must have been created by something even more complex. Design Theorists never seem to answer this. As the issue they are trying to explain is complexity they've actually increased their own problem here (not just completely failed to resolve it, worsened it) by giving us a more complex entity with no origin explanation. When called on this they usually claim that God doesn't need to be created. This is the real 'WTF' moment. Their entire argument is that everything complex needs to be created by something more complex than itself, yet two seconds after saying that they point to something very complex and claim it doesn't need to be created. Though I have to admit, it's very considerate of them to refute their own terrible argument for us.

So, which is your favourite, and why?

If this thread turns out to be popular I might make a new thread for people to vote on their favourite.

I think the design argument is often misstated, as you misstated it above. We look out at the universe, and we see it has order and apparent design, and all our experience suggests that require consciousness. Obviously, the universe existed before there was any living thing in it, so that consciousness must have been there prior to any living thing.

That's the design argument.

Now, you could say that I'm begging the question, because what then produced the fundamental consciousness? The only logical way too look at it is that it is eternal. It simply always has been. This is not so unusual when it comes to consciousness, because we exist the same way. The past doesn't exist, and the future hasn't happened, so our minds exist in a continuous present moment.

How that works? Why that works? I simply don't know. It is possible that God doesn't even know why He exists, or it may be that He knows that question is absurd when applied to His existence.

I think the worst argument I've read was out of the Handbook of Christian Apologetics. It gave an argument this way: The music of Bach exists; therefore God exists. Apparently the reader was just supposed to smile and nod in agreement.
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07-04-2013, 10:21 PM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 09:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 04:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Title says it all people. What is your favourite bad argument for the existence of a Deity? There are some real crackers out there so it's difficult to narrow it down but I think I've finally got my favourite.

The Design Argument

This is my favourite because, not only does it attempt to solve a problem by creating a bigger problem, when you point this out to a theist they tend to respond by refuting their own argument themselves and still thinking they've won. According to the Design Argument, the universe is too complex to exist without a creator. Design Theory proponents claim that you have to have something more complex to create something less complex. Therefore, there must be something more complex than the world to have created it. That something is God. Firstly, this leads to the question, what created God? By the terms of the Design Argument, God must have been created by something even more complex. Design Theorists never seem to answer this. As the issue they are trying to explain is complexity they've actually increased their own problem here (not just completely failed to resolve it, worsened it) by giving us a more complex entity with no origin explanation. When called on this they usually claim that God doesn't need to be created. This is the real 'WTF' moment. Their entire argument is that everything complex needs to be created by something more complex than itself, yet two seconds after saying that they point to something very complex and claim it doesn't need to be created. Though I have to admit, it's very considerate of them to refute their own terrible argument for us.

So, which is your favourite, and why?

If this thread turns out to be popular I might make a new thread for people to vote on their favourite.

I think the design argument is often misstated, as you misstated it above. We look out at the universe, and we see it has order and apparent design, and all our experience suggests that require consciousness. Obviously, the universe existed before there was any living thing in it, so that consciousness must have been there prior to any living thing.

That's the design argument.

Now, you could say that I'm begging the question, because what then produced the fundamental consciousness? The only logical way too look at it is that it is eternal. It simply always has been. This is not so unusual when it comes to consciousness, because we exist the same way. The past doesn't exist, and the future hasn't happened, so our minds exist in a continuous present moment.

How that works? Why that works? I simply don't know. It is possible that God doesn't even know why He exists, or it may be that He knows that question is absurd when applied to His existence.

I think the worst argument I've read was out of the Handbook of Christian Apologetics. It gave an argument this way: The music of Bach exists; therefore God exists. Apparently the reader was just supposed to smile and nod in agreement.


Like we're supposed to nod and smile in agreement with your equally inane argument?

The universe does not look designed except to the simpleminded.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-04-2013, 11:51 PM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
The design argument is a piece of garbage, but the Cosmological Argument is the most annoying to me. Even if I granted them every single premise, the best they could get would be a deist god.
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08-04-2013, 12:25 AM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
Quote:Someday you will feel your isolation, realize the meaninglessness of a culture driven life and your inevitable death. It will be a deep and prolonged suffering. Then perhaps you will be humble and open to returning to who you were meant to be. Until then the "it" ego will rule you.

Your intellect will continue to misinterpret spiritual matters.

Yet you are nearer to finding spiritual truth than the habitual Sunday goer.

Your passion against and smarter than you attitude -- prevents you from seeing universal spiritual truths.

Just because you do not see them does not mean they do not exist.

They do exist.

No gullibility involved.

What is perplexing is the passion you have against something you have no understanding of.

Disappointed closet seeker?

Humans arrived on Earth on 22 October 4004 B.C. A few of us are still trying to repair the ship.
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08-04-2013, 01:30 AM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 05:24 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The Argument from Miracles

A miracle is an event whose only adequate explanation is the extraordinary and direct intervention of God.
1) There are numerous well-attested miracles.
2) Therefore, there are numerous events whose only adequate explanation is the extraordinary and direct intervention of God.
3) Therefore God exists.

Miracles are similar to UFO abductions in that they
1) usually happen with few, if any, credible witnesses and never with a camera or video handy
2) the "witnesses" are usually children or drunks
Lourdes - 14 yr old
Fatima- three children
Backwoods - Bubba & Jeb after four cases of beer

At Fatima there was a large crowd, tens of thousands of people, many of whom reported seeing some kind of solar event. I don't think this fits into the category of 1 or 2.
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08-04-2013, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 02:00 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
(07-04-2013 10:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 09:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  I think the design argument is often misstated, as you misstated it above. We look out at the universe, and we see it has order and apparent design, and all our experience suggests that require consciousness. Obviously, the universe existed before there was any living thing in it, so that consciousness must have been there prior to any living thing.

That's the design argument.

Now, you could say that I'm begging the question, because what then produced the fundamental consciousness? The only logical way too look at it is that it is eternal. It simply always has been. This is not so unusual when it comes to consciousness, because we exist the same way. The past doesn't exist, and the future hasn't happened, so our minds exist in a continuous present moment.

How that works? Why that works? I simply don't know. It is possible that God doesn't even know why He exists, or it may be that He knows that question is absurd when applied to His existence.

I think the worst argument I've read was out of the Handbook of Christian Apologetics. It gave an argument this way: The music of Bach exists; therefore God exists. Apparently the reader was just supposed to smile and nod in agreement.


Like we're supposed to nod and smile in agreement with your equally inane argument?

The universe does not look designed except to the simpleminded.

Or you could say only idiots think the universe looks undesigned.

What you said and what I said are opinions and not real arguments.

Should Egor nod and smile at your inane opinion or mine?
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08-04-2013, 03:04 AM
RE: What is the worst argument for God?
"He speaks to me."

Under ANY other circumstances, we would assume these were people who had broken out of padded cells. Yet millions of these people with voices in their heads are walking around the streets and we seem to think nothing the better of it.

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