What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
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29-09-2011, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2011 09:07 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(29-09-2011 08:37 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Speaking of philosophers, i also liked Descartes' logic:
paraphrasing: I looked deep into my head and found me, thinking, and then I found God"

Undermines cogito ergo sum completely. Rips the rug out from under it. Spent a semester getting there. Got an A on the paper. Smile

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
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30-09-2011, 07:59 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(29-09-2011 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 08:37 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Speaking of philosophers, i also liked Descartes' logic:
paraphrasing: I looked deep into my head and found me, thinking, and then I found God"

Undermines cogito ergo sum completely. Rips the rug out from under it. Spent a semester getting there. Got an A on the paper. Smile

Serves him right! I sympathized with covering his ass, but never forgave his damned Jesuit stand against animals - and the hypocrisy, when you consider M Pimplemousse, or whatever his poodle was called. Anyway, foot-in-both-camps bastard, contributing much to the dark side of science. And that's about all i remember of Descartes.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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30-09-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument


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30-09-2011, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2011 11:27 PM by MasterRottweiler.)
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
[Image: Tide-comes-in-tide-goes-out-You-cant-explain-that.jpg]

Anyway, most of the god's claims are arguments from ignorance and personal incredulity.

But for me one of the most stupid arguments I've ever read/heard is:

"You are alive, therefore god exists."

Peace

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
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30-09-2011, 11:58 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
How has nobody mentioned the Kirk Cameron banana proof!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

THE BANANA IS AN ATHEIST'S NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Worst. Proof. Evar!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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01-10-2011, 12:05 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(30-09-2011 11:21 PM)MasterRottweiler Wrote:  [Image: Tide-comes-in-tide-goes-out-You-cant-explain-that.jpg]

Anyway, most of the god's claims are arguments from ignorance and personal incredulity.

But for me one of the most stupid arguments I've ever read/heard is:

"You are alive, therefore god exists."

Peace

I remember that one. Tide comes in, Tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You cannot explain that.
The funny part is that is actually an argument against god.
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01-10-2011, 12:13 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(30-09-2011 11:58 PM)Ghost Wrote:  THE BANANA IS AN ATHEIST'S NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Worst. Proof. Evar!

A wonderful answer from Jesus and Mo...

[Image: 2010-12-28.png]

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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02-10-2011, 12:00 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
While perhaps not the dumbest I've ever heard of, this one gets special points for being inexplicably common, in it's different forms.

Me: Why do you believe god exists?
Them: Just look at the trees!

While not nearly as wacky as some of the more out there ones, pointing to a random feature of nature and putting it forth as proof of yahwehJesus is wrong for more reasons than I can normally realize at the time I hear it.

1. Why trees? It's usually because they're so pretty. If they're going to claim some natural feature is proof of god, they can at least use some form of argument from design. That's at least superficially plausible.

2. Why is this proof of YOUR god? Even if you could prove that the trees were design with supernatural agency, it doesn't prove your god. Even if you can say, "beauty can only come from a loving creator", your god (I'm talking their conception of god, not the actual god of the bible) is not the only proposed god of love.

3. Just look at the trees! And... what? I mean, they'll usually elaborate once you press them, but they seem to think that saying "Just look at the trees!" is sufficient. Not that their elaboration is very good once you get it, but there's just something odd about how they connect 'Looking at a tree' to 'believing Jesus died for your sins', with no intermediary steps.

4. Everything else wrong with it. Y'know, the actual fact parts, rather than nit-picking the framing, etc...

Is it as stupid as "The Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it"? No. Remember, this argument does attempt (However ineptly) to connect evidence to their claim. But it does earn a special place as one of the most inane arguments that I also hear fairly often.

I remember once I was debating with two educated theists (Educated in math and science, not theology) after one had given a talk about meshing science and god. At one point, I heard the argument from one of the other people there, word for word. I can't recall the reaction of my more learned opponents, but it was almost surreal to hear the argument actually used in conversation in person.

Some of my other favorites, in brief...

Everything Saint Aquinas said. Y'know, those three proofs of god about first cause, which are all identical. His argument from degree. And the ontological argument. I mean, they have such insanely obvious problems, that it's incredible that he could not see them. Well, except for the ontological argument. That's a little less obvious, but mostly because the argument is an attempt at intellectual obfuscation. My personal favorite retort is, "The most perfect being I can imagine is nothing like your god..."

Arguments from design. Complex things can't come from simple things, therefore my god exists. What? No, god doesn't have a creator! He's a simple entity! What? Then I'm admitting that the complex can come from the simple? Well...

People who just don't understand that the Bible isn't neccesarily the word of god, and don't understand that other people don't think the exact same way they do about it.

Evolution is untrue (Via some fantastically bad argument), therefore my god exists. Whoa skippy, I think you missed a step there.

You don't know? Then it must have been my god! Actually this one is on about the same caliber as 'look at the trees', and even more common. It's got a lot of the same problems even.

And finally, last but not least! EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT I'VE EVER HEARD FOR GODS EXISTENCE. Y'see, here's the thing. I'm economically conservative. But this doesn't mean that I don't think more socialist people don't have some good arguments. I just happen to think the cons outweigh the pros. But, yah, I'd love to have more free government services. But to get those, I have to pay higher taxes.

But it's not like that for god. It's not like I hear an argument that's mildly compelling, but say, "It still doesn't outweigh all the evidence that he doesn't exist." I have never heard, in my entire life, a single argument that has ever convinced me even the slightest bit. Not from 'sophisticated theologians' like Dr. Craig, not from christian physicists, not from preachers, not from ANYBODY. The complete inability to make me rethink my position for even a moment is astounding. I'm not a close minded person. I've changed my mind on many things. It's just so incredible that they can't provide one scrap of evidence. One faintest hint. One instance of "How WOULD I explain that without god?"

I change my mind. The worst argument for god is all of them, taken together. It's not the individual fallacies, leaps of logic, and non-sequitors. It's that the arguments from god are all MADE of those things. You can't look at them singularly and witness the almost Platonic Perfection of bad arguments. Only when you take a step back, and look at all the arguments together, can you really appreciate the underlying desperation to provide SOMETHING to justify themselves. Only with that vantage point, can you realize that the arguments form something even worse than the sum of their parts.

The Arguments for the Existence of God are a Voltron of Fail.
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02-10-2011, 07:59 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
Ultimately I would say that there is no worst proof because there are no proofs at all. There is no proof that God exists and no proof that God does not exist. There is only what people believe.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-10-2011, 08:16 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(02-10-2011 12:00 AM)Sines Wrote:  While perhaps not the dumbest I've ever heard of, this one gets special points for being inexplicably common, in it's different forms.

Me: Why do you believe god exists?
Them: Just look at the trees!

While not nearly as wacky as some of the more out there ones, pointing to a random feature of nature and putting it forth as proof of yahwehJesus is wrong for more reasons than I can normally realize at the time I hear it.

1. Why trees? It's usually because they're so pretty. If they're going to claim some natural feature is proof of god, they can at least use some form of argument from design. That's at least superficially plausible.

2. Why is this proof of YOUR god? Even if you could prove that the trees were design with supernatural agency, it doesn't prove your god. Even if you can say, "beauty can only come from a loving creator", your god (I'm talking their conception of god, not the actual god of the bible) is not the only proposed god of love.

3. Just look at the trees! And... what? I mean, they'll usually elaborate once you press them, but they seem to think that saying "Just look at the trees!" is sufficient. Not that their elaboration is very good once you get it, but there's just something odd about how they connect 'Looking at a tree' to 'believing Jesus died for your sins', with no intermediary steps.

4. Everything else wrong with it. Y'know, the actual fact parts, rather than nit-picking the framing, etc...

Is it as stupid as "The Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it"? No. Remember, this argument does attempt (However ineptly) to connect evidence to their claim. But it does earn a special place as one of the most inane arguments that I also hear fairly often.

I remember once I was debating with two educated theists (Educated in math and science, not theology) after one had given a talk about meshing science and god. At one point, I heard the argument from one of the other people there, word for word. I can't recall the reaction of my more learned opponents, but it was almost surreal to hear the argument actually used in conversation in person.

Some of my other favorites, in brief...

Everything Saint Aquinas said. Y'know, those three proofs of god about first cause, which are all identical. His argument from degree. And the ontological argument. I mean, they have such insanely obvious problems, that it's incredible that he could not see them. Well, except for the ontological argument. That's a little less obvious, but mostly because the argument is an attempt at intellectual obfuscation. My personal favorite retort is, "The most perfect being I can imagine is nothing like your god..."

Arguments from design. Complex things can't come from simple things, therefore my god exists. What? No, god doesn't have a creator! He's a simple entity! What? Then I'm admitting that the complex can come from the simple? Well...

People who just don't understand that the Bible isn't neccesarily the word of god, and don't understand that other people don't think the exact same way they do about it.

Evolution is untrue (Via some fantastically bad argument), therefore my god exists. Whoa skippy, I think you missed a step there.

You don't know? Then it must have been my god! Actually this one is on about the same caliber as 'look at the trees', and even more common. It's got a lot of the same problems even.

And finally, last but not least! EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT I'VE EVER HEARD FOR GODS EXISTENCE. Y'see, here's the thing. I'm economically conservative. But this doesn't mean that I don't think more socialist people don't have some good arguments. I just happen to think the cons outweigh the pros. But, yah, I'd love to have more free government services. But to get those, I have to pay higher taxes.

But it's not like that for god. It's not like I hear an argument that's mildly compelling, but say, "It still doesn't outweigh all the evidence that he doesn't exist." I have never heard, in my entire life, a single argument that has ever convinced me even the slightest bit. Not from 'sophisticated theologians' like Dr. Craig, not from christian physicists, not from preachers, not from ANYBODY. The complete inability to make me rethink my position for even a moment is astounding. I'm not a close minded person. I've changed my mind on many things. It's just so incredible that they can't provide one scrap of evidence. One faintest hint. One instance of "How WOULD I explain that without god?"

I change my mind. The worst argument for god is all of them, taken together. It's not the individual fallacies, leaps of logic, and non-sequitors. It's that the arguments from god are all MADE of those things. You can't look at them singularly and witness the almost Platonic Perfection of bad arguments. Only when you take a step back, and look at all the arguments together, can you really appreciate the underlying desperation to provide SOMETHING to justify themselves. Only with that vantage point, can you realize that the arguments form something even worse than the sum of their parts.

The Arguments for the Existence of God are a Voltron of Fail.

Great post. Thanks.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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