What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
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02-10-2011, 10:26 AM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 10:44 AM by tazmin98.)
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(29-09-2011 12:31 AM)No J. Wrote:  All other gods are fake, but my god is the real one. People who believe in other gods are deluding themselves. I know I believe in the real god.

That's what my Muslim friend said. I wanted to facepalm and slap her so hard.

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02-10-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
Hi, great post Big Grin
my favourite:
There are so many people around the world that believe in a supreme being, therefore one supreme being has to exist.
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02-10-2011, 02:17 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(02-10-2011 07:59 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Ultimately I would say that there is no worst proof because there are no proofs at all. There is no proof that God exists and no proof that God does not exist. There is only what people believe.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

If there is no proof that god exists, than all proofs are bad proofs. That was kind of my point. A good proof is one that is accurate. For it to really qualify as proof, it is fully self-contained and is sufficient to demonstrate something. Since you said there are no proofs of god, you admit they are all bad (as none of them work).

The worst proof is merely the one that manages the most fallacies or absurdities. The Argument from Design, for example, is a much better proof than "The Bible said so."
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02-10-2011, 02:42 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
Hey, Sines.

I'm not entirely sure what it is you're responding to or getting at.

I read the "you admit" thing like a "ha, I caught you" kinda thing. But that doesn't make sense to me. So either you don't make sense or I read it wrong. Either way, I could use a hook up.

As for worst proof, I'm certain there's a different way to look at it than this, but I see it kind of like, when am I more wet? When you submerge me in a river, a lake, a sea or an ocean? Wet is wet. The amount of detail is meaningless. To put it another way, 1+1=3, to me, is not less wrong than 1+1=39.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-10-2011, 06:35 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
Or the peanut butter argument. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504). I mean...really?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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02-10-2011, 07:19 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(02-10-2011 07:59 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Ultimately I would say that there is no worst proof because there are no proofs at all. There is no proof that God exists and no proof that God does not exist. There is only what people believe.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

That doesnt really matter. An argument can still be good, or demonstrably bad.
An argument is not proof either.
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03-10-2011, 07:01 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(02-10-2011 02:42 PM)Ghost Wrote:  To put it another way, 1+1=3, to me, is not less wrong than 1+1=39.

Actually, 1 + 1 = 3 is less wrong than 1 + 1 = 39. There's a much smaller error margin on the first one, than on the second one.

Likewise, since no arguments for religion work, they are all bad by definition. I think we can all agree that an argument that doesn't work can be classified as 'bad'. However, some still are worse than others. For example, the old Cosmological Argument vs. the Kalam Cosmological Argument. The key difference is in the first premise.

Cosmological: All things that exist have a cause.

Kalam Cosmological: All things that begin to exist have a cause.

You see the distinction? The Kalam is setting up an out for why God doesn't need a cause, because he never began to exist. The arguments are otherwise identical, but the Kalam Cosmological Argument has one less problem with it than the old Cosmological Argument. Therefore, we can say Kalam is less wrong. Indeed, Kalam is merely guilty of the non-sequitur leaping to God as the first cause. While the old argument does that, it's first premise actively negates Yahweh, as the first premise indicates that Yahweh too must have a cause, which he does not. An argument that does not support it's conclusion is a much better argument than one which negates it's intended and stated conclusion, wouldn't you agree?

The more fallacies in an argument the worse it is. You seem to be rejecting the idea of degrees of badness in an argument altogether. But how could you say "I ate a taco, therefore God exists," is no worse of an argument for god than the Argument from Design. What makes an argument bad are fallacies, leaps of logic, non-sequiturs, false premises, etc... An arguments 'badness' can be determined by how many of these problems are present, or by the severity of the problems, for example, Cosmological Argument -> Deist god exists is less of a non-sequitor than Cosmological Argument -> Yahweh exists, due to the increased number of specified characteristics that are not articulated in the argument.
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03-10-2011, 11:54 PM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
"You can't see wind, yet you know that it exists. God is the same way"
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04-10-2011, 01:57 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(03-10-2011 11:54 PM)Crucify This! Wrote:  "You can't see wind, yet you know that it exists. God is the same way"

Yeah, because I can smell it, it's fucking foul.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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04-10-2011, 02:13 AM
RE: What is the worst "proof god exists" argument
(04-10-2011 01:57 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 11:54 PM)Crucify This! Wrote:  "You can't see wind, yet you know that it exists. God is the same way"

Yeah, because I can smell it, it's fucking foul.

Sorry, I had a burrito for dinner Big Grin

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