What is this verse saying?
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13-04-2012, 02:14 PM
What is this verse saying?
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c]your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”Can someone explain the meaning of the text in bold please?
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13-04-2012, 02:49 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
I got nuthin Wink If I apply my bullshit translation filter I get roughly:

"You jokers have an obligation to look after your parents BY LAW but because this is sometimes an inconvenience and expensive you invented a bullshit tradition that says that as long as you say to them "look, I was gonna give you this shit but I promised it to God instead" then you get out of the obligation and your neighbours don't stone you as they should by law"...

But it's completely up the pole - either (a) the bible is a totally schizophrenic document or (b) the concept doesn't translate well across cultures. Oh yeah, © both and (d) this doesn't exclude other ways in which the bible is fucked up not documented here.
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14-04-2012, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2012 09:02 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: What is this verse saying?
The Jewish tradition included "honoring your father and mother" (of course) from the ten commandments, and one of the ways to do that was to support your parents in their old age financially. But Jesus says that many of the Pharisees allowed people to skip over their financial support for their parents by declaring that money as part of their tithe (10% of their earnings), claiming in essence that financial support of God was more important. It was a loophole that got people out of paying for both their parents and their tithe, and Jesus said that this was a prime example of people reading the bible in a way that was convenient to them rather than logical (because it's a false dilemma --- why can't you pay your tithe and give your parents money to live on?)

It's kind of weird that you brought this to an atheist forum for an answer, while I'm sure you could've gotten a more immediate and "better" answer from theists, but I hope this helps you anyways.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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14-04-2012, 09:02 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
Clearly, it says "blah, blah, blah, blah-de-blah blah".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-04-2012, 09:07 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
Starcrash got the essence of the answer.

Loosely put, from my old, faulty memroy:
The fake deity made a rule that adult children are to take care of their elderly parents. Give them a place to live and food to eat. There was an amount of cash that the priest said you had to give to your parents' retirement fund. Greedy Jews (no stereotype intended) didn't want to give their money to their parents. They wanted to keep everything for themselves. Declaring their money was a Corban...essentially a gift reserved for God, they did what could be compared to a Tax Shelter...They didn't have to give their money to help their aging parents because their money belonged to god. Since there is no god, they knew they could hold onto their Corban for as long as they needed and let their elderly parents get old and sick and die.

Way to go, Jesus. What a fucker you would have been if you were real. Fucker.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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14-04-2012, 09:08 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
(14-04-2012 08:58 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  The Jewish tradition included "honoring your father and mother" (of course) from the ten commandments, and one of the ways to do that was to support your parents in their old age financially. But Jesus says that many of the Pharisees allowed people to skip over their financial support for their parents by declaring that money as part of their tithe (10% of their earnings), claiming in essence that financial support of God was more important. It was a loophole that got people out of paying for both their parents and their tithe, and Jesus said that this was a prime example of people reading the bible in a way that was convenient to them rather than logical (because it's a false dilemma --- why can't you pay your tithe and give your parents money to live on?)

It's kind of weird that you brought this to an atheist forum for an answer, while I'm sure you could've gotten a more immediate and "better" answer from theists, but I hope this helps you anyways.
I brought this up in this forum because I've found that atheists know more about the bible than christians do. A friend and I got to talking about how the OT rules don't apply now and I found this verse. Jesus is clearly still upholding the laws of the OT. I also brought up the verse where Jesus says that he has not come to do away with the old laws. Thank you for shedding some light on this verse.
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14-04-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
(14-04-2012 09:08 PM)Noelani Wrote:  
(14-04-2012 08:58 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  The Jewish tradition included "honoring your father and mother" (of course) from the ten commandments, and one of the ways to do that was to support your parents in their old age financially. But Jesus says that many of the Pharisees allowed people to skip over their financial support for their parents by declaring that money as part of their tithe (10% of their earnings), claiming in essence that financial support of God was more important. It was a loophole that got people out of paying for both their parents and their tithe, and Jesus said that this was a prime example of people reading the bible in a way that was convenient to them rather than logical (because it's a false dilemma --- why can't you pay your tithe and give your parents money to live on?)

It's kind of weird that you brought this to an atheist forum for an answer, while I'm sure you could've gotten a more immediate and "better" answer from theists, but I hope this helps you anyways.
I brought this up in this forum because I've found that atheists know more about the bible than christians do. A friend and I got to talking about how the OT rules don't apply now and I found this verse. Jesus is clearly still upholding the laws of the OT. I also brought up the verse where Jesus says that he has not come to do away with the old laws. Thank you for shedding some light on this verse.
For Christians, it's more accurate to say Jesus fulfilled the Law Of Moses, rather than to say he did or didn't' do away with the laws. The theological meaning to that means, Jesus is the only person on earth to EVER spotlessly keep the Laws in the Old Testament. He fulfilled the law by showing it indeed can be kept perfectly, but since no one can the only way to still sell the religion is to say, place your trust in Jesus and he'll pull you along in his entourage.


Bleh.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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14-04-2012, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2012 10:19 PM by Thomas.)
RE: What is this verse saying?
Translating mythology? How about this one?

When Zeus said to Apollo, "Cast down your garment and free the beast within you", was he telling Apollo that it was ok to bang his sister or that he should instead screw his brother while giving him a reach-a-round?

I'm trying to understand if incest is ok with my brother, but not my sister and looking for wisdom from the gods to base my morality.

Makes about as much sense as reading the bible for moral guidance.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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14-04-2012, 09:26 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
(14-04-2012 09:08 PM)Noelani Wrote:  A friend and I got to talking about how the OT rules don't apply now and I found this verse. Jesus is clearly still upholding the laws of the OT. I also brought up the verse where Jesus says that he has not come to do away with the old laws. Thank you for shedding some light on this verse.
According to Bart Ehrman (I love this guy), Jesus is never seen breaking any of the old testament laws. In the places where the Pharisees accused him of breaking the law, it was because they had a different interpretation than Jesus had, not because Jesus had any intention to change the law... which makes it kind of silly that followers of Jesus don't follow any of the Jewish laws. Jesus did. Why do they think the answer to "what would Jesus do" is always "whatever my fellow Christians are doing"? Why do they think that Jesus' arrival or death had any impact on what the Old Testament commanded? Do they think the rituals only applied to Jews, and yet the moral commandments were universal? What's the basis for such a claim?

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14-04-2012, 09:43 PM
RE: What is this verse saying?
(14-04-2012 09:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(14-04-2012 09:08 PM)Noelani Wrote:  A friend and I got to talking about how the OT rules don't apply now and I found this verse. Jesus is clearly still upholding the laws of the OT. I also brought up the verse where Jesus says that he has not come to do away with the old laws. Thank you for shedding some light on this verse.
According to Bart Ehrman (I love this guy), Jesus is never seen breaking any of the old testament laws. In the places where the Pharisees accused him of breaking the law, it was because they had a different interpretation than Jesus had, not because Jesus had any intention to change the law... which makes it kind of silly that followers of Jesus don't follow any of the Jewish laws. Jesus did. Why do they think the answer to "what would Jesus do" is always "whatever my fellow Christians are doing"? Why do they think that Jesus' arrival or death had any impact on what the Old Testament commanded? Do they think the rituals only applied to Jews, and yet the moral commandments were universal? What's the basis for such a claim?
My friend said that Jesus also said he was the new covenant. I'm not sure what verse she is referring to. Found this one. I wonder when then people did stop stoning people, etc...

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."—Jeremiah 31:31–34
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