What is veritology?
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15-01-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: What is veritology?
(15-01-2013 11:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 02:23 AM)Vera Wrote:  It's the study of me. D'uh! For me it started the day I was born, for others - the day they met me. I weep for those who'll never even hear about it.

Just count your blessings - at least he didn't mention verdicanism.
Oh. I thought that's what Egsy was talking about when he says he's a Veridician. Maybe this is a "diffrn't" Vera ?? Tongue


Egor's 'Verdicianism' is it's own special form of woo-woo... Drinking Beverage

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15-01-2013, 11:26 PM
RE: What is veritology?
(15-01-2013 10:53 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  In short, aside from issues of efficient use of our time, and the obvious scientific value in investigating the functioning of intelligent systems, what do we care of the source of our knowledge, as long as it is true?

On the other hand, proving or demonstrating that a belief system or theory is true is of immense importance. If a belief does not reflect the truth, of what use is it, other than to be an amusing fantasy, or a psychological prop such as a rationalization? False beliefs, such as "this herb is not poisonous", can be outright dangerous.
This looks ok ? I mean he says once you've got some belief your next step is to check if it's true. I'm *guessing* this is where he's gonna insert a sneaky 'and the way to check it's true is to open your bible'...
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16-01-2013, 12:14 AM
 
RE: What is veritology?
(15-01-2013 11:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh. I thought that's what Egsy was talking about when he says he's a Veridician. Maybe this is a "diffrn't" Vera ?? Tongue

Veridicanism

Veridical = true
-an = a follower of
-ism = doctrine

Thus, "Veridicanism" means the doctrine of those who follow that which is true.

I have just posted the Articles of Faith in the Chapel section of The Veridican. I encourage you all to take a look. This is the religion that is eventually going to be very important to you.

What can I say, the following inspires me--always has. Bowing



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16-01-2013, 12:29 AM
RE: What is veritology?
(16-01-2013 12:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 11:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh. I thought that's what Egsy was talking about when he says he's a Veridician. Maybe this is a "diffrn't" Vera ?? Tongue

Veridicanism

Veridical = true
-an = a follower of
-ism = doctrine

Thus, "Veridicanism" means the doctrine of those who follow that which is true.

I have just posted the Articles of Faith in the Chapel section of The Veridican. I encourage you all to take a look. This is the religion that is eventually going to be very important to you.

What can I say, the following inspires me--always has. Bowing




Got news fer ya. NO religion is ever going to be important to me. The avoidance of it certainly is. It's ALL so fake, and just pompous hot air. No "doctrines" for me. I know too much about the old farts who cooked it all up. Tongue
I was watching a thing about the distances and size of the universe last weekend, (on H2..very good BTW). There is no way any human has any clue about what this whole "thing" is all about. This universe could be one of many "levels" of reality. What if the known universe is to "reality" as the electron is to the known universe. 100 years ago they didn't even know about the galaxy. How arrogant we are, to think we know the nature of anything. Given the distances between the known celestial objects, whatever is going on, on Earth, is insignificant, to the max. (Not for us, however).

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16-01-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: What is veritology?
(16-01-2013 12:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 11:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh. I thought that's what Egsy was talking about when he says he's a Veridician. Maybe this is a "diffrn't" Vera ?? Tongue

Veridicanism

Veridical = true
-an = a follower of
-ism = doctrine

Thus, "Veridicanism" means the doctrine of those who follow that which is true.

I have just posted the Articles of Faith in the Chapel section of The Veridican. I encourage you all to take a look. This is the religion that is eventually going to be very important to you.

What can I say, the following inspires me--always has. Bowing


I've studied religion and history enough to be reasonably certain that your God arose out of various ideological power struggles within the ancient Hebrew that elevated their desert war god into a supreme position out of fear and strife and whose histories and religious books where repeatedly re-written by whichever mortals where in power to legitimize themselves at that time and thus reflecting their own views and prejudices.

Thus anything built upon that faith (the three Abrahamic religions) are all just various houses of cards built upon foundations of sand (including your own).


Good choice of music though, that is one of my favorite CAKE songs. Though I enjoy for it's intended irony, not sure if you get the same vibe from it.

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16-01-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: What is veritology?
To be honest, reading through that pialogue site made me gag. There's a lot of text there, but it's largely mumbo-jumbo. I mean, what is this supposed to mean?

Quote:THE TRUTH in all caps means the one truth, the ultimate truth, or what ever the actuality actually is. By participating in PiALOGUE we are able to triangulate all aspects of knowledge and/or opinion or get closer and closer to a common understanding of what is actual which in my diagram is the circular π in the middle with the smaller trangulated colored circles leading up to an ever increasing understanding of the general nature of the THE TRUTH.

Is there a false truth? Is there an actuality that isn't actually? Can't we just use "epistemology" and go on to the traditional discussions about why the scientific method is or is not the best way to determine fact from fiction, what it can apply to, what we can determine purely through logic, etc.? It seems like he's just trying to set you up to question how we know what is true and to somehow leverage his beliefs into the picture as a kind of false-equivalency with science.


Quote:For example, suppose my crystal ball were to reveal to me a theory of physics that unifies Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. If the theory were proved to be true, it would be no less so because it came from my crystal ball, than if it had come through the usual process of scientific "induction".

Yep. Congratulations, you know two terms from physics and the fact that some scientists desire a unifying theory of physics. Now prove to me how the theory can be proven true when it comes from your crystal ball. Does that involve evidence and independent measurement? How can you back up your statement that ideas generated from a crystal ball are valid? Wouldn't ideas produced by a "random idea generator" have the same results - the ideas will be true if they're proven as such after the fact, regardless of their original source? Can I just start spouting hundreds of random ideas and become a reputable source when some of them are deemed "true"?

The usefulness of a source is determined by how reliable it is in producing valuable, factual information. A crystal ball isn't a useful source because it can't be trusted to reliably supply good information - they generally provide only what information is available to the "psychic" reading them and that is determined by their cold reading skills, which is simply a social trick and nothing more. You gain nothing more than if you were to pick a random person out of the crowd and ask them, except where a psychic's cold reading skills might come into play - asking them about quantum mechanics is likely useless unless you happen upon Steven Hawking, but they might be able to pick up on some aspects of your personal history or such as cold readers often can (by picking up cues or nudging you to give them some). This is why Nature is a reputable source, while The Daily Mail isn't.

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16-01-2013, 06:51 AM
RE: What is veritology?
(16-01-2013 12:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  This is the religion that is eventually going to be very important to you.
Dream on, Ed, dream on. Laughat

I suspect that Veridicanism is going to be buried and forgotten along with you.

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16-01-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: What is veritology?
(15-01-2013 09:54 PM)PersephoneK Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 06:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why is this 'discussion' happening? What's in it for you? Consider

Does it matter? The discussion is with a person I consider important to me and he's asked to have a discussion. Frankly I expect it to be painful. Which is why I want to be as armed as possible. I'd never heard of veritology and he just started a class.
The importance was whether it was mandatory or voluntary. It appears to be voluntary, so carry on.

But I am curious as to what you hope to gain from it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-01-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: What is veritology?
(16-01-2013 06:51 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 12:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  This is the religion that is eventually going to be very important to you.
Dream on, Ed, dream on. Laughat

I suspect that Veridicanism is going to be buried and forgotten along with you.
You're giving it too much credit. A year from now when Ed's on to something else, Veriwhateverism will be buried and forgotten.

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16-01-2013, 06:44 PM
RE: What is veritology?
(15-01-2013 10:53 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Not that is surprises me that finding information on this might be difficult. A quick Google search actually shows THIS thread as the last result on the first page, so I guess there just isn't much out there. So far what I have read seems really fishy.

My biggest problem is that they see truth as absolutes that can be known, rather than approximations that can be observed and derived. And since it is all philosophical based, if being used by a theological, I'm sure he'll just try to use it to attempt to support some religious dogma without empirical evidence. The lack of evidence part makes me worried.
Yeah, that's one reason why I wanted to ask around here. I didn't spend a lot of time on google (because for one, its hard to know if the source is reputable), but what I did spend, didn't come up with a lot.

I mean, I'm relatively comfortable in proclaiming it mumbo jumbo, but would love to find some sort of reputable refutation of it like from the Skeptics Society or James Randi, etc.

Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone!

"If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." ~Rene Descartes.
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