Poll: What is your opinion?
Talent is natural and hereditary and you can't obtain it however hard you try
Talent is natural but not hereditary and you can't obtain it however hard you try
Talent is acquired and you will obtain it with hard work
Talent can be both natural and acquired
Other (please explain)
I am not sure
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What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
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26-04-2017, 02:14 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
(26-04-2017 01:56 PM)no_reason Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 01:05 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Someone like an opera singer has to be born with some physical properties in their vocal cords and lungs that allow them to sing opera. There's a lot of training they go though.

Barbra Streisand has said she never really took voice lessons in her life. She could always sing even when she was little. Here she is at 13 years old in a recording her mother paid for at Nola Recording studio. 13 for fuck sakes!





The person has to have the will to hone their talent. If they don't have the drive then they might as well be a talentless slug.

I hate it when people call talent a gift from god. It's not. It's just genetics, drive, luck, a lot of practice and life circumstances all rolled into one.

Yes but you don't know if she hadn't voice lessons she may lie or she probably had parents who sing or played instrument, but if someone likes something who don't have talent and work hard and many hours in this area wouldn't he/she become good or wouldn't he/she reach someone who has natural talent?

"Hard work" is a cliche and when left alone is bullshit. Some people do like what they do, and when they enjoy what they do, but especially when they have the family financial support to do what they like, I've heard many say, "It is not work to me".

Not all things are hard to some people and not all people should work hard like a workoholiic. Most workers DONT make enough, not just the poor, but the middle class too. If work was always meant to be hard, why fucking invent anything? Walking his harder than driving, Texting is easier than the Pony Express when physical letters written on paper were carried by a person on a horse.

I have no problem using the word "productivity" in place of "hard work" <----- That has become a corporate cliche to convince people to take less and less in income and work more and more with nothing to show for it.

Inventing things that make worker's jobs easier say like a car instead of a horse can make that worker more productive. Work does not have to be back breaking sweat to be productive. I had a boss on one job who used to say, and I agree, "It isn't how hard you work, but how smart you work".

When something is easy it is easier to replicate, when it is easier to replicate it can be done quicker and frees up your time to do other things. I think the worst thing however, promoted by the corporate world is the bullshit idea of "multi tasking".

I can tell you in my work experience I got more done when you didn't interrupt me and I didn't have to bounce back and forth between tasks.

Productivity should not mean you end up going home stressed out and un healthy worrying about how you are going to pay your bills. If you like spending 80 hours a week on a job, that is on you, the individual, but not everyone wants to do that nor does anyone have the right to project their own personal ideas like that on the everyday middle class or poor worker. Most people simply want 40 hours and balance outside their job.

And most of the medical community has been saying for decades that overworking yourself actually costs companies in productivity because the person gets sick, or apathetic on the job.

So when you say "hard work" who does that benefit in reality? You or the owner as far as distribution of labor and profit. The worker, unless you work for yourself, the workers do the bulk of the labor, not the owner.

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26-04-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
(26-04-2017 02:14 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 01:56 PM)no_reason Wrote:  Yes but you don't know if she hadn't voice lessons she may lie or she probably had parents who sing or played instrument, but if someone likes something who don't have talent and work hard and many hours in this area wouldn't he/she become good or wouldn't he/she reach someone who has natural talent?

"Hard work" is a cliche and when left alone is bullshit. Some people do like what they do, and when they enjoy what they do, but especially when they have the family financial support to do what they like, I've heard many say, "It is not work to me".

Not all things are hard to some people and not all people should work hard like a workoholiic. Most workers DONT make enough, not just the poor, but the middle class too. If work was always meant to be hard, why fucking invent anything? Walking his harder than driving, Texting is easier than the Pony Express when physical letters written on paper were carried by a person on a horse.

I have no problem using the word "productivity" in place of "hard work" <----- That has become a corporate cliche to convince people to take less and less in income and work more and more with nothing to show for it.

Inventing things that make worker's jobs easier say like a car instead of a horse can make that worker more productive. Work does not have to be back breaking sweat to be productive. I had a boss on one job who used to say, and I agree, "It isn't how hard you work, but how smart you work".

When something is easy it is easier to replicate, when it is easier to replicate it can be done quicker and frees up your time to do other things. I think the worst thing however, promoted by the corporate world is the bullshit idea of "multi tasking".

I can tell you in my work experience I got more done when you didn't interrupt me and I didn't have to bounce back and forth between tasks.

Productivity should not mean you end up going home stressed out and un healthy worrying about how you are going to pay your bills. If you like spending 80 hours a week on a job, that is on you, the individual, but not everyone wants to do that nor does anyone have the right to project their own personal ideas like that on the everyday middle class or poor worker. Most people simply want 40 hours and balance outside their job.

And most of the medical community has been saying for decades that overworking yourself actually costs companies in productivity because the person gets sick, or apathetic on the job.

So when you say "hard work" who does that benefit in reality? You or the owner as far as distribution of labor and profit. The worker, unless you work for yourself, the workers do the bulk of the labor, not the owner.

I mean if you enjoy something who don't have talent and you try more and more to become good at it wouldn't you become good at it? (with more effort than someone who has talent) I mean if you like I don't mean if you don't like because if you do something who don't like you will be tired
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26-04-2017, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2017 03:17 PM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
Hard to say if it's hereditary but I do believe it's natural. I think you can be talented in a certain field of human endeavor whether any of your forebears exhibited similar talents or not; a "muggle born" pianist or swimmer or poet if you will.

BUT I think talent is nothing more than a collection of perhaps seemingly unrelated aptitudes that give one a natural headstart or advantage towards developing a particular skill.

Put a dozen 2-year-olds in a pool who've never swam before. Some will just take to it much more naturally than the group average - some much less. But that's not necessarily any indication of how good they might each eventually become given enough work and development. There's natural talent, and then there's an inclination towards hard work and dedication. The latter is significantly more important than the former.

Take music as another example. I play guitar. It's a hobby, I've never devoted SIGNIFICANT energy into it - but I know enough to know that I never had a finely-tuned ear for pitch and don't have a particularly good natural sense of rhythm either. These are things I had to develop. Now I started playing guitar at about age 12. Other kids my age with a better natural sense of rhythm and ability to perceive the relationships between notes might have progressed from the "beginner" stage with less effort than I had to put in. That's "talent" when you start your climb a wrung or two higher up the ladder than the average learner of the same skill. But talent is no guarantee the other guy won't eventually climb higher than you if he's got the grit to do it and you don't!

I like to think that EVERYBODY has the aptitudes and natural abilities to be VERY talented in at least one area, but I think most of us never figure out what that area is. For all I know I might've been the Eric Clapton of crocheting - had I ever given it a try.
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26-04-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
(26-04-2017 07:03 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 11:27 AM)no_reason Wrote:  What is your opinion about talent?

More trouble that it's worth.

You're very talented at these prophesies. Rolleyes

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26-04-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
(26-04-2017 01:05 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Someone like an opera singer has to be born with some physical properties in their vocal cords and lungs that allow them to sing opera. There's a lot of training they go though.

Barbra Streisand has said she never really took voice lessons in her life. She could always sing even when she was little. Here she is at 13 years old in a recording her mother paid for at Nola Recording studio. 13 for fuck sakes!





The person has to have the will to hone their talent. If they don't have the drive then they might as well be a talentless slug.

I hate it when people call talent a gift from god. It's not. It's just genetics, drive, luck, a lot of practice and life circumstances all rolled into one.

Opera is all about the heft and the horns I heard.

[Image: article-1241649-03B62C480000044D-657_233x289.jpg]

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26-04-2017, 06:39 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
My opinion about talent is that given a strong desire to do something, plus discipline, plus access to good teachers or coaches, most people can work themselves into a profession. As a music teacher: undoubtedly there are big differences in aptitude. However, a middling student who is on fire about an instrument and doesn't mind working hard often does better, over time, than someone with a lot of natural aptitude but with less desire and focus.

Many people are good at a bunch of things, especially when "being good at" just means easily picks up new concepts. If there's no love for the subject, being good at it's more of a mental exercise, so you can stay sharp for the things you really want to do.
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26-04-2017, 10:50 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
Depends on the talent, but each is probably some of each.

Argued about IQ decades ago, then settled on IQ being about 78% heredity and 22% environmental which would include factors such as nutrition.

For other talents it is likely different percentages.
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26-04-2017, 11:23 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
I don't much believe in talent. No doubt genetics imposes its own determinations and limitations, but that doesn't equal talent at all, to my mind; it equals potential. We have to practice to attain the fruits of our potential.

After all, how do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Take jazz improv, for example. You have twelve notes and a few harmonic structures that are fairly repeated ... but the you have to learn how each note sounds, in context. Because that's what matters.

What's that? You could never learn jazz improv? My friend, you've already learnt something much more difficult; you improvise speaking in your native tongue on a daily basis, dealing with strangers who limn a context you cannot know beforehand -- and yet you've learnt it. How? Because you've practiced, time and again. You improvise every conversation! And in a language that has 26, rather than 12 notes -- and contexts innumerable. Life would be easy if it were a ii-V-!7, life would be easy if you could narrow it down to a simple chord change.

"Talent" is simply where potential meets practice. We are all talented. It's simply what we choose as a focus.
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26-04-2017, 11:56 PM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
My Take:

Talent you're born with/biologically attained.

Skills are what you acquire and work on.

You can have talent and do nothing and still succeed or somewhat succeed.

You can have talent and use skill to enhance.

You can have little to no talent but work hard to perfect the skill and succeed/attain desired goal.

Discipline will get you further than motivation (that's a separate, non related hi-jack tidbit for your pleasure).
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27-04-2017, 12:48 AM
RE: What is your opinion about talent? Is talent natural or acquired?
Over and above the question of talent is the question of access to that talent. Writer's block is a thing. Something analogous often occurs in other fields. Talent may be naturally occurring but it can also very naturally not occur where before it had been plentiful. Talent is a little mysterious (albeit in an entirely natural way).

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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