What is your ultimate authority?
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06-10-2014, 11:26 AM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(06-10-2014 10:45 AM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  To quote Adam Savage.

"I have concluded through careful, empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me. Keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less then I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think and they still love me and I’ve concluded after careful consideration that this person keeping score is me." - Mythbusters host Adam Savage, speaking at the Reason Rally.

"I have concluded through careful, empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me. Keeping track of what I think about things, recording my phone calls, tracking my internet searches, reading my mail, keeping a dossier, waiting to shoot me, and who knows what they're capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think and they still track me and I’ve concluded after careful consideration that this person keeping score is the NSA. And I wish they would fuck right off."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
What would an Ultimate Authority do ?

A fire fighter is an authority on fires. He or she puts fires out when they see them (in the most basic description)
A police officer is an authority on some laws. When he or she sees someone breaking the law, they intervene and try to protect innocent people from further harm.
A contractor or engineer is an authority when it comes to designing and building a structure to code.
When they evaluate an existing structure they may have to replace certain parts that have rotted or have unsafe structural features.

So, you would think an ultimate authority would be able to intervene when a natural disaster was about to harm people just like a police officer who sees a crazy man running with a butcher knife toward a crowd, would intervene.

You can tell when fire fighters aren't present at a fire in the country. The house or barn burns to the ground and sadly some people die in those fires. Oh but wait, you say there is an Ultimate authority who is an authority on everything so he must also be an authority on fire fighting. So why does a house burn down in the presence of an ultimate authority ?

Answer- There is no ultimate authority and the world is proof of it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-10-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(05-10-2014 01:22 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  You think that's a dishonest thing to say, anyway. If you were debating a religious person and they told you that, you would think it's dishonest.
What is your ultimate authority for that claim? Drinking Beverage

(05-10-2014 01:25 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  You'd better offer proof of that. Cats generally aren't perfect beings.
Where's YOUR proof that cats aren't generally perfect? Dodgy

(05-10-2014 01:27 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Logic, whose authority is God.
Who is "God" and what is your authority for claiming he/she/it as the authority for logic?

(05-10-2014 01:30 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  You aren't a perfect being. You don't know everything.
Such claims require an authority according to you yet you just make the claims and provide none.

(05-10-2014 01:34 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  All you've done is present ad homenims and tu quoque...
How can you be sure? How you can be sure of anything?

(05-10-2014 01:43 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  God does. Facepalm
That face palm is to yourself for AGAIN making a claim without providing the authority. Don't you even play by your own rules? No

(05-10-2014 01:46 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  There is only one perfect being.
Oh come on! I'm not so arrogant as to claim I'm the ONLY one. Smartass

(05-10-2014 02:01 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Because that guy had to come from somewhere.
What is your authority for claiming the student is a guy?

(05-10-2014 02:53 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  ...what?
What is your authority for not understanding the question?

(05-10-2014 02:54 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  I am not worthy of a response.
What is your authorit... oh never mind. We're finally in agreement on something. Thumbsup

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07-10-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(06-10-2014 01:41 AM)Ace Wrote:  nothing, I heed to no ultimate authority what so ever

I only listen to what the evidence says, if it has no evidence behind it then I classify it as unproven and not worth my time

What gives you the authority to do that? Drinking Beverage

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07-10-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(06-10-2014 06:42 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 01:00 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  [What is your ultimate authority?]
If you don't have one, your position is absurd.

An authority in the sense meant here, I think, means an arbiter of truth. So in context I think the question you are asking is:
"What is your ultimate arbiter of truth?"

The test for whether or not something is an ultimate arbiter of truth must be that the information coming from that arbiter is capable of reversing well-cherished and deeply held beliefs. To be considered an arbiter something must:
1. Have a means of communicating information to you, and
2. That you are compelled to change your beliefs based on that information.

Perhaps most concretely put your question is:
"What could make you change your mind?"

Reason and evidence could change my mind about the existence of a god. What could change your mind? If you don't have anything that could change your mind, as you say, your position is absurd.

What could change your mind about reason and evidence? Drinking Beverage

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07-10-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(06-10-2014 09:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 03:02 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  You haven't provided anything against my argument. You've just baselessly dismissed it. You have to refute it, because I'm attacking the base of your beliefs.

You haven't provided any argument, only assertions. And most of us don't have "beliefs". you're the one with beliefs. Atheists are defined by their lack of belief.

Claiming lack of belief is contradictory. You have a belief that you have no belief that you have no belief... Drinking Beverage

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07-10-2014, 01:50 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(06-10-2014 08:40 AM)natachan Wrote:  I would love to have an honest talk about morality and where it comes from. I would love to talk about the way that we process and comrehend the universe. But I am disappointed to find that this isn't what you want.

You're falling back on the "absolute truth" and logic arguments. To sum up what I've said earlier on these subjects, absolute truth does not exist outside of mathematics and other systems which are clearly defined, and that math and logic are tools created in minds to deal with the universe we find ourselves in. God is not required. And you have provided no reason to believe that he is other than "it would be convenient if he were." That isn't a valid argument. It would be convenient if I could materialize bagels out of thin air while I was studying, that doesn't mean I can.

Either put a reason to believe your god exists or don't. I don't care. But stop pretending you have some knock-out argument when every point can be refuted by a freshman philosophy student.

Except that you have to use logic to know anything about logic. You're thinking in a circle.

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07-10-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
A hurricane of stupidity just blew in.
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07-10-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(07-10-2014 01:47 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(06-10-2014 01:41 AM)Ace Wrote:  nothing, I heed to no ultimate authority what so ever

I only listen to what the evidence says, if it has no evidence behind it then I classify it as unproven and not worth my time

What gives you the authority to do that? Drinking Beverage

Well.. there's also no authority stopping them from doing that, either. So there's that.

Plus... where is the evidence for some/an 'Ultimate' authority doing anything?

Much cheers to all.
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07-10-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: What is your ultimate authority?
(07-10-2014 01:54 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 01:47 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  What gives you the authority to do that? Drinking Beverage

Well.. there's also no authority stopping them from doing that, either. So there's that.

Plus... where is the evidence for some/an 'Ultimate' authority doing anything?

Much cheers to all.

Evidence presupposes an ultimate authority.

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