What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
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29-09-2013, 11:48 PM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
(29-09-2013 11:19 PM)amyb Wrote:  This made me think of musicians who once made "satanic" or at least mildly-non-christian music who got "born again." This apparently includes Tom Araya from Slayer, Peter Steele from Type O Negative (this one upset me a bit), Dave Mustaine from Megadeth. Though I don't know about his earlier days when it comes to religion, Alice Cooper was apparently quoted as saying, "Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's real rebellion!" Lolz.

Certainly, I've heard stories of people who "found Jesus" later in life, when they weren't religious before. And some people seem to try on every option to find what fits best, and are even very into whatever they're into at the time. And then there are those who "find religion" in a crisis situation, like they get cancer or someone they love dies, and it seems to be a wishful thinking thing, or they cling to it to give them hope.

I have a friend I've known since high school, he was very anti-religious, and he suddenly "found Jesus" in his mid-30s. I haven't talked to him much about it because he gets all pissy and I know it probably has something to do with his way of dealing with past sexual abuse (he's mentioned that specifically in this context), so I don't push the subject, but again, that's just another example of people using religion to deal with trauma.

Though I usually consider my dad to have been an atheist, he sorta went nuts and said some troubling things before he died. He had cancer 10 years before that, but was in remission, but that, and smoking, and working around insulation contributed to his COPD. Then he had to get part of the other lung removed, so he had half of each lung, was an alcoholic and addicted to painkillers. So I don't think his brain was working right at the end. He'd go into the backyard and scream things at the sky, like, "Quit fucking me god you faggot motherfucker!" And when I asked him why he did these things and why he suddenly seemed to believe innonsense, he replied that he'd been fucked over so much in life, someone must be responsible. So maybe a sort of self-pity mixed with agenticity? When bad shit happens, people like to have a scapegoat, and they may think that some evil skydaddy or something is behind it all.

I dunno.

Hug

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-09-2013, 12:53 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
Wait a minute... Craziness! That's the reason several of my relatives turned religious: then went fucking nuts.

Though I know some others who also claimed religious experience or drug experiences, esp LSD. I mean, LSD makes you see patterns in shit and think weird thoughts, sure. But I know some people who decided those weird drug thoughts were religious revelations and changed their religious outlook accordingly. Which brings us back to people being fucking nuts, I suppose...
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30-09-2013, 02:04 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
Fred Hoyle was Richard Dawkins of his time and accepted theism before he died. He was a stubborn mother fucker too. He'd never accepted the Big Bang theory even in spite of overwhelming evidence.
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30-09-2013, 02:34 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
(30-09-2013 02:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Fred Hoyle was Richard Dawkins of his time and accepted theism before he died. He was a stubborn mother fucker too. He'd never accepted the Big Bang theory even in spite of overwhelming evidence.


Sir Issac Newton was a theist and an alchemist, Benjamin Franklin was a deist, Gregor Mendel was a Augustinian friar, Sir Francis Collins thought that a frozen waterfall he found while hiking was compelling proof of his god...

Brilliant people can compartmentalize their brains and believe in some extraordinarily weird things, by not applying the same level of rational and empiricism to their personal beliefs, that they do to their professional work upon which their reputations are subsequently built upon.

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30-09-2013, 04:43 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2013 04:52 AM by absols.)
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
ur love to ur life is all what is shown here in posts

as if all is about urselves realities in the world when it is not about it at all, but u want to use it as such for urself subjective life wills

how do atheism help u in ur life ??? it cant

atheism in truth of what it means, is literally being a theist, against one all

this objectively mean nothing or cant mean anything

in positive truth, atheism is about self kind of identity that refuse anyone else above it

this is about depth of being not being realities

same for believers, it is not about selves issues or means
it is about selves need for some justifications of bases, when everyone knows being nothing to himself means or physical presence at the first place of conscious still sight
it makes for a lot of people sense that there are some intelligent powerful entities behind themselves and all realities life, from also knowing how everyone is objectively intelligent in same ways that he didnt do any, while anyone means of wills are different like subjects free livings by objective knowledge use
so it is normal to figure how there must b others doing the same and in bigger dimensions

objective is not the subject, so there must b other subjects when the objective is wider than what a human can see

it is a matter of choice and positions clarifications, the relation with everything and the identification of oneself freedom sense
which u constantly mean to reject assume in the mean to profit from the same vice, getting everything right for ur living positive states that each individually take the liberty to direct in different way

it is useless to keep meaning to know subjective wills

anyone can say smthg about him or another and act different a second after or at the same present time, noone else can know it

while only what is constant exist, so the individual himself constancy, so what noone can check

that is why what matter is the positive fact effects, starting by talking about objective positive ways and justifications
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30-09-2013, 05:30 AM
Re: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
Your scenario could be one reason that one type of person chooses theism, but I don't necessarily think it's a great general hypothesis for all atheist to theist conversions.

There is a section in [i] Biblical Nonsense [i/] by Dr Jason Long where he talks a little about this.

His hypothesis is that it is a factor of 2 things if one is atheist or theist. Intelligence and level of indoctrination.

You can go through all permutations you like but it comes down to

Indoctrination = more likely to be a theist if high levels and more likely to be atheist/nonreligious if nonexistent

Intelligence = either more or less likely to be able to switch beliefs or hold tighter onto ones beliefs

Intelligence is intimately linked to the level of Indoctrination since an intelligent person who has been indoctrinated all their life is still not likely to change their position. Those most likely to change sit somewhere in the middle with low amounts of Indoctrination and at least moderate intelligence. If Indoctrination changes over the person's lifetime for some reason, it could be what sways them one way or the other (unless intelligent enough to see otherwise).


Clearly other external issues factor in, but this seems like a reasonable hypothesis for the individual.

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30-09-2013, 05:43 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
(29-09-2013 09:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no "rational, in depth approach, to theism".
Faith is the decision to abandon reason, and "make the leap".
They say the same thing about believers turned atheists ... "Oh you were never a real Christian"

Perhaps I should have elaborated that point a bit more. I agree with you... what I meant was a rational investigation into the claims and history of theism. Not "experiencing" the theism... like trying out different religions... but studying ancient history and finding out how the bible was constructed, comparing religions from several ancient civilizations and seeing the similarities and differences to our current religions... does that make more sense?
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30-09-2013, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2013 06:29 AM by RedJamaX.)
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
(30-09-2013 04:43 AM)absols Wrote:  ur love to ur life is all what is shown here in posts
.....
that is why what matter is the positive fact effects, starting by talking about objective positive ways and justifications

er... uh....

what? Huh

Most of what you said is unintelligible. however, I will address one of your claims.

(30-09-2013 04:43 AM)absols Wrote:  how do atheism help u in ur life ??? it cant

You are very wrong. While my atheism addresses only one thing, the non-belief in that one thing has a broad effect on my entire life and the way I live it, both in a day-to-day manner, as well and preparing for the future. I no longer feel as though somebody will be there to carry me, I am responsible for myself. I am no longer being "tested" by some immortal all powerful being to prove myself, things happen in life, some times you are prepared, some times you are not. But I no longer sulk about it, wondering "why me" and looking to the sky as though there is something there as I imagine a condescending face looking down as if to say "I know what's good for you". My atheism taught me to accept me for who I am, and not hate myself because I couldn't measure up to some impossible expectation. The journey of my enlightenment taught me how to improve myself without waiting for a "sign", but to take my own initiative. It taught me that not only is there no god who's going to "save" me, but none of the people around the world. And that is even more reason to be a productive member of our society, promoting a positive outlook on life, raising my children to be intelligent, self sufficient, reasonable individuals who can make positive contributions to the world. The more good people there are, the less evil people there will be. My atheism helps me to understand the real world that I live in and how I fit into this great big puzzle as nearly insignificant. And that's just a tiny fraction of what being an atheist has done for me. As a theist I was trapped in a delusional bubble where my imagination ruled the causality of the world in which I lived in... while it "seemed" as though I had an expanded view of the universe with limitless possibilities, I realize now it was just a mental trap, holding me back from the rationality of the Real World. I would compare it to the difference between dreaming and being awake... in a dream (theism), anything is possible, but when you are awake (atheism based on rationalism), you can actually do something with your life.
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30-09-2013, 06:06 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
I think if an atheist finds a reason to become a theist, it's doable. The Witnesses have their tactics and they are pretty good at "changing the mind" of who enters their flock. I've seen it happen.

Self preservation would be my main guess. Preservation could extend to other people within their influence bubble.

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30-09-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: What kind of atheist converts to a theist?
(30-09-2013 06:04 AM)RedJamaX Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 04:43 AM)absols Wrote:  ur love to ur life is all what is shown here in posts
.....
that is why what matter is the positive fact effects, starting by talking about objective positive ways and justifications

er... uh....

what? Huh

Most of what you said is unintelligible. however, I will address one of your claims.

(30-09-2013 04:43 AM)absols Wrote:  how do atheism help u in ur life ??? it cant

You are very wrong. While my atheism addresses only one thing, the non-belief in that one thing has a broad effect on my entire life and the way I live it, both in a day-to-day manner, as well and preparing for the future. I no longer feel as though somebody will be there to carry me, I am responsible for myself. I am no longer being "tested" by some immortal all powerful being to prove myself, things happen in life, some times you are prepared, some times you are not. But I no longer sulk about it, wondering "why me" and looking to the sky as though there is something there as I imagine a condescending face looking down as if to say "I know what's good for you". My atheism taught me to accept me for who I am, and not hate myself because I couldn't measure up to some impossible expectation. The journey of my enlightenment taught me how to improve myself without waiting for a "sign", but to take my own initiative. It taught me that not only is there no god who's going to "save" me, but none of the people around the world. And that is even more reason to be a productive member of our society, promoting a positive outlook on life, raising my children to be intelligent, self sufficient, reasonable individuals who can make positive contributions to the world. The more good people there are, the less evil people there will be. My atheism helps me to understand the real world that I live in and how I fit into this great big puzzle as nearly insignificant. And that's just a tiny fraction of what being an atheist has done for me. As a theist I was trapped in a delusional bubble where my imagination ruled the causality of the world in which I lived in... while it "seemed" as though I had an expanded view of the universe with limitless possibilities, I realize now it was just a mental trap, holding me back from the rationality of the Real World. I would compare it to the difference between dreaming and being awake... in a dream (theism), anything is possible, but when you are awake (atheism based on rationalism), you can actually do something with your life.

this is completely retarded word, on what base you judge what is unintelligent???

long gibberish post, not even one objective word
how do atheism help u in ur life???

i didnt ask u about u, why do u want to believe that, or what do u hate about god, i asked a very clear question, prove atheism as a positive source, what did you do as an atheist good, that is due to count on urself alone ???

how could u believe doing smthg with ur life when you are realizing by being atheist, your mortal condition more ???

while in fact, being alone cant make the image of being awake
dreaming is about yourself being alone image
awake is about seeing everything of its fact light

it is funny how u paint atheism as a religious man
bringing out all the good in u, for the world to b lesser evil...u almost make me cry

atheism is nothing to that at all

it is just the knowledge that everything is objectively none, but intelligent as the only possible way
and subjectively u cant handle being ruled by another, or thinking wat u cant see and touch urself
in all atheist is who can deal neutrally with anything everyday and mean a separate time for some hobbies and creations stuffs that would b done with pleasure

atheism exist much before u decided to convert to

when u mean smthg else u must create another word

the world dont rely on u, it is not bc u become atheist that the world will change

it is what it is, deciding to b good urself wont stop the evil being where it is
on the contrary it is risking being trapped by evil u believe existing

the world is not a rational thing, u talk about world as if it is an easy task

the world is very complex existence and life, u cant mean but urself reality and that is what an atheist believe to
an atheist is a scientist for the salary as any other individual, he is not meaning the world rationality and the goodness of people

and it is funny how u mean by atheism being less ambitious then a religious man

on the contrary bc all is up to u then atheist is who think very highly about himself

ur expectation through religions is what confirm ur perspective upon urself as being nothing that matter

this is why atheism represent the devil to god in religion, clearly thinking as a superior being and believing being the reason of its own self and life

your background is still the same, while u r meaning to steal atheists life
so actually you are acting as a fanatic religious guy who is killing atheism for one god

again u prove how u dont respect anything existing really, nor that u admit to any else to b living other then urself

it is already all one in the sense of absolute abstraction as the reference of everything

there is no good separated from bad in the same reality of words

atheism is good theism is bad

there is always the same reference that justify both depending on the objective situation and the subjective meaning wills or willing mean

but after all it is one world so the same standard reference

fuck u with ur crap lies market
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