What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-01-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  The question is simple, why atheism and not agnostic in the first place?

You're over-defining the term. Several other users already gave a good explanation why (Colourcraze and Hobbitgirl, particularly). I am both atheist and agnostic. I'm atheist because I don't have a belief in any gods. I'm agnostic because I don't believe we can actually prove there are no gods (similarly to how we can't prove there are any gods).


(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  What do you know that scientists have studied for decades and still dont know yet YOU know?

I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence. Are you asking me if I believe things that science has not yet proven or explained?


(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing but how does something come from nothing?

No, it's not. As mentioned above, you're over-defining the term. Atheism is simply not believing in any gods. Anything else is an additional qualifier that isn't specifically tied to the definition of atheism.


(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  Creating a child needs a man and a woman and the sperm creates the child so something came to be so that child was born, obviously nothing can come from ''nothing'', sounds good on paper but in reality makes no logical sense.

I'm assuming you're trying to disprove the big bang, here. There are a couple problems with this:

1) The big bang isn't the belief that everything came from nothing; it states that everything was in the same place, in an exceptionally tiny area.

2) I could ask you the same question about theism. If you need a man and a woman to make a baby, who made God?

3) Assuming you answer the above question by arbitrarily giving God some special qualities like being timeless or eternal (which is special pleading), how do you know that the universe doesn't have these qualities? Because you say so?


(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  Is the possibility of a talking snake impossible? Who knows, i dont know so i wont pretend that i do.

It is possible, although it hasn't been verifiably observed. It isn't very likely, as snakes don't have the proper vocal cords. Could such a creature exist? Sure. There are creatures smart enough to talk and there are animals who can mimic speech pretty well.

That being said, I have no idea what this has to do with atheism. You can not believe in gods yet believe in talking animals. As far as I can tell, you're either trying to equate atheism to being opposed to the Abrahamic religions (because they say atheists are) or you're trying to equate atheism to rationalism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RobbyPants's post
12-01-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
AIR
Quote:Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing but how does something come from nothing?

As pointed out by others atheism has nothing to do with believing something came out of nothing.

Atheism is just a lack of belief in a god or gods - that's it.

As for something coming out of nothing - that's another topic.
It could be as per Plato, Aristotle, Spinoza, Bertrand Russell, Paul Davies, objectivists and numerous other thinkers/philosophers/scientists - that the universe eternally exists is some form or other i.e rejecting "Ex Nihilo" creation as illogical & contradictory.

The "big bang theory" only tells us what happens very close to time=0. It does not say what happens at t-0 or if the concept of "before" even makes sense.

The key assumption your making is placing "nothing" as the default and asking "why is there something rather than nothing ?"
What if something always exists and "nothing" is just a relational word to contrast the absence of one thing from something else ? i.e nothing cannot exist in absolute terms - (its irrational) it only exists in relation to something.
Just saying "only nothing exists" is an oxymoron and even then there would be "potential for something" which IS SOMETHING ! (a potential could be compatible with Platonism or other metaphysical systems)
I.e "nothing" presupposes the existence of something.

There are different concepts of "nothing" and even the physicists/cosmologists such as Lawrence Krauss do not mean an absolute ontological nothingness when discussing the "beginning" of the universe that we can detect. Lawrence Krauss description of nothing is definitely an absence of space-time objects you are familiar with but it involves quantum fluctuations which are still a something (just not the visible universe we see)

The reason why atheists reject the concept of God in relation to the above arguments about "something cannot come from nothing" is because the Kalam cosmological argument (which is what your hinting at) has many flaws and fallacies - some of which I mentioned above. Sticking God at the beginning really doesn't solve anything and just compounds mystery with more mystery + contradictions.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhOs7rUrS5bRKvWS7clR7...gNs5ZwpVef]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Baruch's post
12-01-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
I think that was a driveby...one post, five hours ago.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
12-01-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
(12-01-2014 08:22 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think that was a driveby...one post, five hours ago.

No, it wasn't approved until I got online today.... he probably waited and waited and gave up. Maybe he'll come back to check on it. No mods around on Saturday night it seems.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
(12-01-2014 08:22 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think that was a driveby...one post, five hours ago.

So, what's the point? Do they believe their arguments are so good that they can just leave them here, never return, and anyone that reads them will be converted? Do they do this to test their stupid arguments on strangers to see if they hold up before busting them out in front of people they know?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
(12-01-2014 08:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(12-01-2014 08:22 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think that was a driveby...one post, five hours ago.

So, what's the point? Do they believe their arguments are so good that they can just leave them here, never return, and anyone that reads them will be converted? Do they do this to test their stupid arguments on strangers to see if they hold up before busting them out in front of people they know?

We get them every so often. Not sure what the point is of it though. If you aren't going to stick around and back up what you say; they why bother. Seems to be fun for some.

Or, like Dom said, he got tired of waiting and went to post somewhere else.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
Quote:
(12-01-2014 03:30 AM)Air Wrote:  Creating a child needs a man and a woman and the sperm creates the child so something came to be so that child was born, obviously nothing can come from ''nothing'', sounds good on paper but in reality makes no logical sense.

I'm assuming you're trying to disprove the big bang, here. There are a couple problems with this:

1) The big bang isn't the belief that everything came from nothing; it states that everything was in the same place, in an exceptionally tiny area.

2) I could ask you the same question about theism. If you need a man and a woman to make a baby, who made God?

3) Assuming you answer the above question by arbitrarily giving God some special qualities like being timeless or eternal (which is special pleading), how do you know that the universe doesn't have these qualities? Because you say so?

Agree with Bobby pants 100%
In addition:

Man & woman make a baby in the universe.
Everything IN THE UNIVERSE has a cause (on the macro scale at least - quantum indeterminacy complicates this generalization)
However the universe as a whole need not be caused but always exist in some form or other - the current visible universe being a small area 14 billion years ago - but like bobbypants said - this is not nothing (far from it).
There are many scenarios which could mean the universe we see is just once phase of many universes either simultaneously or in the past.
Not knowing the absolute answer to this does not mean we can make stuff up about God.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhOs7rUrS5bRKvWS7clR7...gNs5ZwpVef]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
I'll address the snake part ... I breed Burmese and Royal pythons. I DO know that snakes can't talk for a FACT! They lack the necessary components to speak. ... If you like, I'll get a Ball Pytbon out of a vivarium for you and make a short video of him trying to juggle. We'll see how he gets on ... WITHOUT ANY F**KING HANDS! Big Grin

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
Even if there was a snake that could talk, I doubt I would believe everything it had to say.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
12-01-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: What made you an Atheist and not an Agnostic?
(12-01-2014 08:45 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Even if there was a snake that could talk, I doubt I would believe everything it had to say.

Awww, that's not very nice! Mine are nice! They get a lot of bad press in this crazy book written a couple of thousand years ago but it's all lies! I'd trust my snakes over a fundie nut job any day! Smile

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Monster_Riffs's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: