What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
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23-01-2017, 01:54 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
Humans are social animals. We are tribal. It is very difficult to walk away from your "tribe", this community of faith that you've been a part of, and which includes your dear family.

We get it.

But as was said, you don't need to think Santa Claus is real to enjoy opening presents under a tree (a combination of Roman and Germanian/Norse religious beliefs) during the Winter Solstice holidays.

But were you devastated when you gave up believing in Santa Claus?

Were you a bad kid when you realized you didn't need to "watch out" and be good all year because Santa "sees you when you're sleeping" and "knows when you're awake, knows if you're bad or good"?

Be true to your own mind. A person who is not intellectually honest with her/himself is dead already. Part of that may be admitting you still feel like a part of that social circle. Decide, then, to what scale and to whom you can be honest about your true thoughts, and you might be surprised... unless they are fundamentalists, they may welcome your continued participation in the church activities, even as an atheist. (They claim to welcome all, and of course they'd hope to "win you back".)

Just be careful whom you trust with the news, if they are the types of Christians with whom you cannot be open about it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-01-2017, 02:46 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
@port_of_call

Quote:But the other reason I've been going along with it all is that I find a lot of real joy in the community, music, artwork, imaginative stories of saints, and the Bible verses (such as Psalms) describing nature and hopeful depictions of a possible afterlife. Why is it that so much of the most gorgeous works of art in all of history have to be wrapped up in religion?

To find good stories you don't have to look for accounts of life of so called saints - being dirty and malnourished isn't really heroic I would say (killing dragons is on the other hand but Turin did it with more style than George). Want see some heroes? Look for biographies of Raoul Wallenberg, Oskar Schindler, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Witold Pilecki. Small slivers of heroism can be found even in tyrants stories like the guy who said to Hitler face that he must have shit for brains to say things that he said [Volker Ullrich Adolf Hitler Die Jahre des Aufstiegs 1889-1939 if I recall correctly]. Beauty of nature you can find in abundance watching National Geographic or just wandering woods - for me it beats Bible so hard that I must call the police to stop the violence.

As far as afterlife go I prefer Tolkien. For aesthetic value as death hold no terror for me - I didn't existed for eons so why should I be afraid about returning to natural state?

Art is wrapped in religion, sure but secular things of beauty aren't hard to find. Just think of Vasily Grossman Life and Fate, Shalamov Kolyma Tales, Da Vinci Mona Lisa, Vivaldi Four Seasons. It's true that many works have ties to religion but I see no problem in this - I can appreciate Michelangelo Pieta just as easy as I can see value in Botticelli Birth of Venus. I have no problem with religion in Bulgakov Master and Margarita or with Handel Messiah.

Quote:I'm trying to find the words to describe it. As much as I feel thrilled to experience the "sunlight" of rational thought, I still feel that in some ways I'm giving up a Thanksgiving feast for plain bread and water.

In a way you do, you're no longer crown of creation and beloved by Lord of Hosts. Instead you're just another animal in vast, uncaring Universe where cruelty is abound and justice scarce. No longer you're so special that Almighty God himself is interested in your behavior.
But reality rarely matches dreams and adult thing to do is to realize it - humans are not special, life is not just, and there is no great rejoicing after death, only nothingness. It may be not as beautiful as what religion try to sell but it is real and there is no escape from it.

Still giving up religion does not mean that you must leave beauty and joy behind. You can behold wonders of science. Or just enjoy fine books, food and sex without feeling guilt - no space daddy will disapprove.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-01-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
Quote:It is very difficult to walk away from your "tribe"

Mate sorry for what I am about to add.

Biggest load of shit I ever read.

Seriously, go away for 10 years then return. You will find you are nothing alike. They'll still be doing the same old shit. You will have changed.

Sorry R, but I've seen this my entire 52+ years.

Don't walk motherfucker, RUN!

Yes, the grass is greener and far more interesting. (depends on destination. Avoid Syria)

That's just friggin life.

Meet people, do stuff, learn to listen really carefully in a conversation, learn to make love correctly, it is all about the other person, duration and care....

This is life as I know it only. My perspective. Not Rocket's.

Whom I greatly admire, I might add. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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23-01-2017, 03:23 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
(23-01-2017 03:09 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Yes, the grass is greener and far more interesting. (depends on destination. Avoid Syria)

Laugh out load God Banjo, every now and then you drop an absolute gem Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-01-2017, 03:44 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
(23-01-2017 03:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-01-2017 03:09 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Yes, the grass is greener and far more interesting. (depends on destination. Avoid Syria)

Laugh out load God Banjo, every now and then you drop an absolute gem Smile

Kindly leave my bowels out of this conversation.

Honestly! Gasp

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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23-01-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
You get to sleep in.

In a short while, you become accustomed to it - and you won't even believe there IS anything going on before noon on Sunday...

Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-01-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
Dunkin Donuts

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-01-2017, 07:56 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
Sundays are the perfect day to sleep in (if you can), have coffee, stay in your pajamas until noon (or all day!), read a book, go for a walk...

Enjoy your permanent vacation Smile

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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23-01-2017, 08:29 AM
RE: What replaces church, now that I don't believe?
You can volunteer for one of the causes you find appropriate. If you choose carefully, you may find one that is not excessively churchy in the day to day operations, and you'd be socializing with like minded folks on at least the one subject.
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