What's in a name: Russia
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27-12-2012, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2012 12:59 PM by Janus.)
What's in a name: Russia

Russia is of course still a feudal and fascist society. But until recently it hadn't sunk in for me just how deep the roots of that character are. While it is so glaringly obvious in the name!

'Russia' ('Rossya', Россия) or 'Ruslan' means of course literally 'the land of the Rus'. And the 'Rus' were Swedish Vikings! Swedish Vikings who 'invaded' the mainland of today's Russia from AD 750 to 1200, where Slavs (a more mongoloïd and culturally very different people) lived in small villages and hamlets along rivers. The Vikings traded (and pillaged occasionally) along the rivers en-route to the south, and founded countless fiefdoms and principalities. They even reached and traded with Constantinopel*, Cyprus and Malta!

*that's when and where the Russians – i.e. the Kievan Vikings – picked up their orthodox christianity and their cyrillic script.

Those fiefdoms and principalities coalesced into the land of the 'Kievan Rus', a.k.a. the land of the Kievan Vikings! I.o.w. the land where the Vikings were boss, and where the Slavs were not!
The 'land of the Kievan Rus' evolved into tsarist, feudal Russia. Where the tsar was always referred to as 'the Tsar of all Russians'... i.o.w. 'the Tsar of all Vikings'! Note: not 'the Tsar of all Slavs'! So Slavs have been second class citizens in their own country for over 1250 years! The name of their country is still 'Land of the Vikings' today!

And indeed many of their upper class resemble Vikings much more than they do Mongols...

So, must we expect a struggle for the emancipation of the ethnic Slavs in their own country? Or won't the status quo over there change in the next few centuries? Who knows.
But my money is on the latter.


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31-12-2012, 04:21 AM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
Incredibly interesting. I had no idea.

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31-12-2012, 04:26 AM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
I read a book about this, I believe it's main focus was on the rulers - mainly the Czars but it covered this as well. This was a great refresher. = )

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31-12-2012, 04:02 PM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
Also, those vikings that settled there eventually became the guard for the Byzantine Emperors. On the topic of Vikings, they are probably some of the most unappreciated people in the world as they laid the foundation for Empires and Kingdoms. The Normans were also descendants of vikings (Franks and Vikings intermingled to form this culture). They eventually controlled England via William the Conqueror who would subjugate the Saxons wh.....

I will stop rambling now. The Vikings were just pure awesomeness.

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01-01-2013, 08:24 PM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
I see a parallel with how Europeans subordinated New World indians and usurped their land.
Only the Vikings' exploration of vast foreign lands did not result in the destruction of 95% of the conquered indigenous peoples...
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02-01-2013, 06:35 AM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
Slavs weren't Mongol people considering the Mongol invasion of Europe didn't occur until the 1200's and the Slavs had inhabited Russia couple hundred years prior to that. They also most likely came from the Balkan region, not Mongolia. Even Attila the Hun, who probably drove the Slavs into Russia when he invaded that territory (controlled by the Goths at the time) considering it's shortly after his invasions that Slavs moved to Russia, historians are not sure where Attila originated from (aka, he might of been or might not of been Mongolian).

You're right about the Rus being "Vikings" though. Initially anyway. Varangians, as they were called, migrated from Sweden to modern day Estonia I believe? (don't quote me on that). This was at the time when the Vikings were migrating all over the place. They were able to basically bully the Slavs into giving them money for a while until the Slavs had enough of that and kicked their asses back to Sweden.
And here's the kicker, after the Slavs kicked out these Varangians, they started in-fighting for a little bit and soon they had enough of that and INVITED the Vargarians back to rule over them (the Slavs) because the Vargarians had order and fancy shit and it would centralize and stop the in-fighting and bring peace.
So Rurik, a chieftain came back and formed Kievan Rus' mid 800's (I don't know the exact year).

So this was all well and good, these Rus' people came and set up order and governance.
However, this was around the same time that the "Viking Age" stopped. And so with it the migrants from Sweden and eventually the Varagians, who were Swedish (and thus Norse religion and thus Vikings), were basically "bred" out and basically became Slavs.

So considering there are no "Vikings" and weren't for very long because they were all "bred out", to answer your question, no there wont be a struggle. Rus' people, especially today, are far more Slavic then they are Swedish. Rus' has come to mean "Russian" people, not Swedish Vikings.


In case anyone wanted a quick run down of the rest of Russian history, while I'm on the subject..
Kievan Rus' had a few wars with the Byzantium Empire.
After a while Sviatoslav (had to look that shit up, no bloody way I was gonna get that spelling right) became king. This is where Rus' finally started gaining some momentum. He conquered Khazan. Rus was in the north, Khazan (turkish, Persian, Iranian etc.. people) were in the south. After Sviatoslav came along Russia was in the north and south. He also conquered Bulgaria, parts of Poland and generally just expanded Rus's borders.
Then Vladamir the Great came into power, that's when Rus became Orthodox Christian thanks to him.
After he died there's like 100 years of sibling rivalry and Kings get overthrown but then come back to take their crown etc.. etc..
Then in the 1220's, 30's the Mongols invaded. Kicked some butt and defeated Kievan Rus'.

This resulted in basically a divide between Novgorod Kingdom, Moscovy Kingdom and the Golden Horde (Mongols), with the Golden Horde holding the power. There were several other states as well but smaller.
Then over 200 hundred years Novgorod, annexed smaller ducy states as did Moscovy. Eventually Novgorod surrender to Moscovy in 1478 and agreed to become under their authority. Then 2 years later Ivan the Great defeated the Golden Horde (whom they had been paying gold too all this while I might add).
Then over the next hundred years or so Moscovy conquered the remains of the Golden Horde and previous Kievan Rus' states.
Ivan the terrible became Tsar of Russia in 1547
Then Tsardom of Russia was at war with Sweden and/or Poland (and/or the Poland-Lithuania commonwealth) for a century or so.
Until Peter the Great came along in 1682 and became Tsar. He faught the Sweds and in 1721 they surrended Estonia and other regions around that area and Peter the Great became the first Emperor of the Russian Empire.
Then the Crimean War in 1853, the first photographed war. Also introduced "battle medic" by Florence Nightingale (who also invented the pie chart).
Late 1800's Russia then had a socialist/communist/Marxist movement and the socialist parties were born.

Then in 1914, WW1 broke out. Russia was getting a hammering and so withdrew from the war when the people overthrew the government and killed the royal family. The USSR was born. Civil war erupted between the anti-communists and the Red Army in 1918-22. Stalin became dictator in 1929.
WW2. Cold War starts.
1953 Stalin dies.
1989 the Berlin wall falls. Shit hits the fan. Countries gain independence from the USSR left right and center.

8th of December 1991, the signing of the Belavezha Accords.


What? I like history, it's a passion of mine.

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02-01-2013, 12:14 PM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
That sounds about right. Only 'Ruslan' still means 'land of the Rus' = a Swedish Viking tribe... today!
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05-01-2013, 01:09 AM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 01:31 AM by Janus.)
RE: What's in a name: Russia
(02-01-2013 06:35 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Slavs weren't Mongol people considering the Mongol invasion of Europe didn't occur until the 1200's and the Slavs had inhabited Russia couple hundred years prior to that. They also most likely came from the Balkan region, not Mongolia. Even Attila the Hun, who probably drove the Slavs into Russia when he invaded that territory (controlled by the Goths at the time) considering it's shortly after his invasions that Slavs moved to Russia, historians are not sure where Attila originated from (aka, he might of been or might not of been Mongolian).


If you look at this map you see that the Bulgars, who by many are considered to be the original Slavs, came from a region east of the Volga, and the southern reaches of the Urals. Which was just west of present day Kazachstan/Uzbekistan. And Kazachstan/Uzbekistan, a.k.a. central Asia, was where Attilla and his Huns were supposed to have come from. Their westward expansion and raids in the 5th century pushed their neighbors the Bulgars, the Slavs, before them and 'out of their way' into present day Russia and even to Bulgaria and the Balkans (so Slavs didn't come from the Balkans to Russia, but the other way around). So the Slavs had been in heartland Russia for about 4, 5, or even 6 centuries before the Rus/Varangians/Vikings arrived.
Slavs have a decidedly mongoloïd streak (remember Brezhnev, R.I.P.?) from their origins which bordered on central Asia, considerably reinforced by Gengish Khan's devastating raids of the 13th century. Vikings of course have not (unless you count Laps/Sami as Vikings).

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05-01-2013, 01:57 AM
RE: What's in a name: Russia
I see, I see. BUT it doesn't change what happened when these Sweds colonized, and were given control of, the area. That being that when the Viking age ended and the flow of migrants from Sweden to Kievan Rus', the Vikings were very much a minority and were effectively bred-out by the majority Slavs.
Point being that it very much didn't result in these Sweds having control of the Slavs, because they quickly became Slavs themselves, more so then Sweds.

Also considering they were invited back I don't think the Slavs held any distaste for them. The fact that Rurik was invited back to govern the Slavs, by the Slavs, says something. Also because they were beaten back across the sea once, one can imagine that they would know they were on thin ice. They wouldn't want to rock the boat so to speak.

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05-01-2013, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 03:33 AM by Janus.)
RE: What's in a name: Russia
(05-01-2013 01:57 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I see, I see. BUT it doesn't change what happened when these Sweds colonized, and were given control of, the area. That being that when the Viking age ended and the flow of migrants from Sweden to Kievan Rus', the Vikings were very much a minority and were effectively bred-out by the majority Slavs.
Point being that it very much didn't result in these Sweds having control of the Slavs, because they quickly became Slavs themselves, more so then Sweds.

Also considering they were invited back I don't think the Slavs held any distaste for them. The fact that Rurik was invited back to govern the Slavs, by the Slavs, says something. Also because they were beaten back across the sea once, one can imagine that they would know they were on thin ice. They wouldn't want to rock the boat so to speak.


Absolutely.
Nevertheless, the country does still de facto carry the name 'land of the Rus'/Varangians/Vikings', and not the name 'land of the Slavs'...! It's Russia, not Slavia...! That was literal! The land really belonged to the Rus'. They actually owned it a few decades after Rurik's initial sensitive steering, as the invited ruler, avoided getting thrown out for a second time. They, the Rus', were the large landowners. They, the Rus', were the large slav(e)owners! They, the Rus', became the nobility and the princes*. And they, the Rus', have been the upper class in Russia ever since. As evidenced 'in your face' by its name...

*Exactly the same period that the feudal concepts of nobility (knights) and princes also took hold and developed in western Europe.
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