What's 'wrong' with this forum?
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07-01-2013, 06:50 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 06:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  But this forum is not now, nor has it ever been, a safe haven.

I note that you did not say "and nor will it ever be".

I was putting forward a suggestion (option 2) to enable that possibility.

If that suggestion is rejected, so be it.
I will bow out gracefully.

Cheers.

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07-01-2013, 06:51 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2013 07:01 AM by Dom.)
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
Ok, lets just accept DLJ's solution for the sake of argument, base the debate on that structure. Let's refine it and after we did that, look at it again and then talk about whether it is acceptable to people.

Intended Pros:

1.peace in the forum

2.everyone validated

3.free speech for everyone, including agressive trolls and people coming here for help

Cons:

1. each poster has to remember to preceed each post with how it is intended - too troublesome

2. We assume aggressive trolls will respect this - they come to stir things up. They are not going to worry about respecting individual categorization of threads, the threads marked for non agressiveness are exactly the ones an agressive troll will want to target.

Real trolls come to cause trouble, it's generally not that they have a quirky personality (Egor) or are holding opinions most do not share (I and I) And there are the benign trouble making trolls, their intent is to upset people, but their goal is not a forum melt down. These people are not trolls who have the intent of causing melt downs. These are people who want a platform for their opinions or a way to live out their trouble making fantasies of being important.

However, there are trolls who are online getting their jollies specifically by causing melt downs. See FZU's statement in Stark's good bye thread: "I always win". These trolls have a hacker mentality, and it's just a more personal form of hacking a forum and causing it to falter. In some 12 years on various message boards I have seen probably 20 or 30 of them in action. We can get into a definition, i.e. how to recognize a malignant troll, and figure out how to recognize one off the bat later.

We can make all the rules in the world and weigh this forum down, it will not discourage these types of trolls from showing up, they see it as a challenge.

3. Very confusing for newbies.

Suggestion::

Divide the place into a forum/debate section and a message board/support section. That way admin can fence trolls who disturb the message board section to the forum section. There they can practice free speech and frolic and be watched and if admin decides they are indeed just here to cause a melt down, they can take whatever action admin pleases. Or maybe they just had a bee in their bonnet and the separation can be lifted a fter a bit.

This would eliminate the trouble of marking each thread and would offer a solution for people coming for help.

The forum is growing. It is for atheists. Atheists come from all walks of life, and some are in the process of deconverting and need some support. The question is, do we want to offer them a place to come and grow, or do we not give a shit and let them walk away and fend for themselves.

Why not help when we are able to do so?

Also, this is the real internet world. It's not your brick and mortar real world, it has it's own issues. And those issues are hackers, spammers and malignant forum trolls. We defend outselves against hackers and spammers, but we let malignant forum trolls push our buttons and cause wide spread melt downs, admins quitting and members leaving? There are standard defenses against spammers and hackers we can employ, but each forum is on it's own to find a way to prevent meltdowns caused by malignant trolls.

Also, on the internet everyone assumes they are incognito and no one is going to be hurt in person. Not so, look at crime statistics. There are trolls who are mentally unstable and will hunt down internet users and take revenge for things that were said. It's a reality. It doesn't happen all that frequently, but it happens. People in boats also don't drown as a rule, but we all wear floating devices when in small boats.

The fine line in all of this is to identify a malignant troll versus a person with objectionable opinions (to some or most) looking for a platform.

That's my take on this.

I hope this thread will be a real debate of SOLUTIONS and DLJ's proposition.

Once we have widdled that down, we can go back to discussing if such a solution is needed or accpetable. We can't have an informed and intelligent debate of this unless we have refined the possible solutions first.

Think of it not as a change of the existing forum, think of it as adding an option much needed for some, one that may even save lives.

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07-01-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
Why such a negative Nelly?


What's Right about this forum? Girl_nails

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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07-01-2013, 07:04 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 07:00 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why such a negative Nelly?


What's Right about this forum? Girl_nails


It's not at all negative whatsoever, it's merely growth. Adding a support section is no big deal.

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07-01-2013, 07:07 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 07:04 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 07:00 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why such a negative Nelly?


What's Right about this forum? Girl_nails


It's not at all negative whatsoever, it's merely growth. Adding a support section is no big deal.

Read the title, Dear Dom.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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07-01-2013, 07:12 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 07:07 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 07:04 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's not at all negative whatsoever, it's merely growth. Adding a support section is no big deal.


Read the title, Dear Dom.


Doesn't mean we can't have a productive thread.

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07-01-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
Nope. Doesn't mean that at all.


Forget I ever was here. No

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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07-01-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
I will suggest that a forum be set up that requires approval to participate.

We already have 2 of these, Forum Team Matters and TTA Clubhouse.

We could create a new one, TTA Safe Haven, for non-confrontational posting. You gain admittance after demonstrating that you are likely a good forum participant. You can be tossed out of it if you breach decorum, without being banned from TTA.

Easy peasy, lemon squeazy. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 07:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  approval to participate.

TTA Clubhouse.
What dat? And why wasn't I invited? That's it! Obviously no one here likes me! I'm taking my toys and getting the hell outta here. Goodbye thread coming along in 3, 2, 1... Censored

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07-01-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 07:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  I will suggest that a forum be set up that requires approval to participate.

We already have 2 of these, Forum Team Matters and TTA Clubhouse.

We could create a new one, TTA Safe Haven, for non-confrontational posting. You gain admittance after demonstrating that you are likely a good forum participant. You can be tossed out of it if you breach decorum, without being banned from TTA.

Easy peasy, lemon squeazy. Drinking Beverage


Yes but......

Likely the most needy are total newbies. Most who would have been here enough to qualify are not in the "fragile deconverter" situation.

Taking care of deconverters and preventing malignant troll from causing melt downs can be different situations, although the troll will take out the weaker population first.

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