What's 'wrong' with this forum?
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07-01-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 12:59 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 11:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  There seem to be two opposing conceptual views being espoused.

One is to quarantine troublemakers to make the forum safe.

The other is to make a safe place within the forum.


The first is not possible without destroying the forum. You want safe? Stay away from public forums.


Trouble makers or melt down trolls?

Big difference.

You're a trouble maker, terse and deadly Big Grin Egor could be called a trouble maker. I am a trouble maker because I won't shut my big mouth.

None of the above are harmful to the health of the forum.

Melt down trolls have the agenda and only purpose of toppling admin and causing mass exit. They work in specific ways. Big difference.
We are talking about two issues, I believe.

I think that a safe place within the forum is desirable and achievable.
The general forum is not safe and cannot be.

However, I do not disagree with the ban of FZUMedia. In fact, I may have been the first to explicitly call for it as I recognized him as the poisonous wacko he proved to be. I feel sorry for him, but ...

The BanHammer should be wielded rarely, but it should be wielded without remorse.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 01:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 12:59 PM)Dom Wrote:  Trouble makers or melt down trolls?

Big difference.

You're a trouble maker, terse and deadly Big Grin Egor could be called a trouble maker. I am a trouble maker because I won't shut my big mouth.

None of the above are harmful to the health of the forum.

Melt down trolls have the agenda and only purpose of toppling admin and causing mass exit. They work in specific ways. Big difference.

We are talking about two issues, I believe.

I think that a safe place within the forum is desirable and achievable.
The general forum is not safe and cannot be.

However, I do not disagree with the ban of FZUMedia. In fact, I may have been the first to explicitly call for it as I recognized him as the poisonous wacko he proved to be. I feel sorry for him, but ...

The BanHammer should be wielded rarely, but it should be wielded without remorse.



I agree basically, but someone had to get rid of him before the whole forum fell apart. It would have. Everyone would have taken a position, he would have seen to that. When he made that "I always win" post in Stark's thread, that sealed it for me.

One can also send hot heads on vacations for periods of time, and make sure they don't get into a safe zone. That alone will thwart them.

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07-01-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 01:14 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  People seem to forget that internet bullying is a real thing, and that it happens frequently. I think rules are a good thing to be put into place concerning the psychological protection of the defending party. It would be entirely reasonable, in my opinion, for there to be rules creating an environment in which a person is able to ask his/her attacker to stop, and if they don't, they can deal with the administration.


The rule is simple. If the Admins don't like your behavior, they'll warn you. If you persist, you get banned.

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07-01-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 01:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 01:14 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  People seem to forget that internet bullying is a real thing, and that it happens frequently. I think rules are a good thing to be put into place concerning the psychological protection of the defending party. It would be entirely reasonable, in my opinion, for there to be rules creating an environment in which a person is able to ask his/her attacker to stop, and if they don't, they can deal with the administration.


The rule is simple. If the Admins don't like your behavior, they'll warn you. If you persist, you get banned.
I hope it's a little more substantial than "Admins don't like" - you know, take it out of the personal arena of "Gosh, I just don't like that behavior" and into a more quantifiable arena of "This behavior violates clearly defined rules." If so, then I agree.

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07-01-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 01:48 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 01:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  The rule is simple. If the Admins don't like your behavior, they'll warn you. If you persist, you get banned.
I hope it's a little more substantial than "Admins don't like" - you know, take it out of the personal arena of "Gosh, I just don't like that behavior" and into a more quantifiable arena of "This behavior violates clearly defined rules." If so, then I agree.


Nope, the rules need to be loose and general, open to the interpretation of the forum team.

The rules we have are just fine. Trying to make them more precise will lead to a black hole of amateur word-splitting rules lawyers arguing endlessly over what rule was broken to what degree by whom in what post, ad nauseum.

It will destroy the forum.

Fuck that.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 01:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-01-2013 01:48 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I hope it's a little more substantial than "Admins don't like" - you know, take it out of the personal arena of "Gosh, I just don't like that behavior" and into a more quantifiable arena of "This behavior violates clearly defined rules." If so, then I agree.



Nope, the rules need to be loose and general, open to the interpretation of the forum team.

The rules we have are just fine. Trying to make them more precise will lead to a black hole of amateur word-splitting rules lawyers arguing endlessly over what rule was broken to what degree by whom in what post, ad nauseum.

It will destroy the forum.

Fuck that.


Too many cooks in the kitchen - and too many rules in the cook book - one messed up recipe.

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07-01-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
Um... I make suggestion:

Temp ban.

Any mod can make, or maybe consensus of two required ?

Offender receives email that they can appeal the ban, the ban was applied for X reason, and applies for Y period.

Mods discuss the ban as soon as reasonably possible after it is issued, if it's agreed that the ban was unfair the ban is reversed, if it is agreed that the user broke the rules it's made permanent. Otherwise, if the ban was fair but the behaviour doesn't justify a full ban, ban expires after a period.

This will probably deal with most trolls I imagine, as if banned even temporarily they'll presumably get bored and leave.

Thoughts ? Please if stoopid plan don't hold back Smile
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07-01-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 03:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  Um... I make suggestion:

Temp ban.

Any mod can make, or maybe consensus of two required ?

Offender receives email that they can appeal the ban, the ban was applied for X reason, and applies for Y period.

Mods discuss the ban as soon as reasonably possible after it is issued, if it's agreed that the ban was unfair the ban is reversed, if it is agreed that the user broke the rules it's made permanent. Otherwise, if the ban was fair but the behaviour doesn't justify a full ban, ban expires after a period.

This will probably deal with most trolls I imagine, as if banned even temporarily they'll presumably get bored and leave.

Thoughts ? Please if stoopid plan don't hold back Smile
Ah, finally a person who does not simply voice how they don't like rules.

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07-01-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 03:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  Um... I make suggestion:

Temp ban.

Any mod can make, or maybe consensus of two required ?

Offender receives email that they can appeal the ban, the ban was applied for X reason, and applies for Y period.

Mods discuss the ban as soon as reasonably possible after it is issued, if it's agreed that the ban was unfair the ban is reversed, if it is agreed that the user broke the rules it's made permanent. Otherwise, if the ban was fair but the behaviour doesn't justify a full ban, ban expires after a period.

This will probably deal with most trolls I imagine, as if banned even temporarily they'll presumably get bored and leave.

Thoughts ? Please if stoopid plan don't hold back Smile


Yep, I call it sending someone on vacation to relax. If they come back, they are usually better, at least for a while.

Doesn't work with meltdown trolls though, they just come back with a better plan.

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07-01-2013, 05:11 PM
RE: What's 'wrong' with this forum?
(07-01-2013 03:52 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  ...
Ah, finally a person who does not simply voice how they don't like rules.
...

Dude! Is that not just a little dismissive of all the other people who have made constructive suggestions on this thread?

Did you read the other suggestions?

Happy to hear your opinion or suggestions for potential solutions.

Smile

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