What's wrong with this question?
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12-10-2017, 07:37 PM
RE: What's wrong with this question?
Can't both know the future and then be able to change it.

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12-10-2017, 08:44 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2017 08:59 PM by unsapien.)
RE: What's wrong with this question?
This just seems like another variation of the question, "Could god make a boulder so heavy he couldn't lift it?"

I would posit that a "god" would be necessarily limited to what is actually possible, it could know all that is knowable, do all that is doable. Of course then you get the people that say if his powers are limited (by only doing everything that's possible) then it's not a god, then I wouldn't waste my time continuing the debate, cause then you're just riding on the train to nonsense-ville.

With our limited knowledge of how the the universe works we can't know the future but we could do some good predictions of things, like where the earth, moon will be in 1000 years for example.

If "god" could know the position of every atom in the universe, their energy levels, how they're moving, then he still wouldn't "know" the future but it might be able to predict the future with a level of accuracy that will appear equal to knowledge of the future.

Then he just doesn't say anything to anybody...like it does now, it does have to ability to remain silent also. Tongue

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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17-10-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: What's wrong with this question?
(11-10-2017 07:31 AM)clarkgamble Wrote:  For anyone to know with certainty, a particular event will happen in the future, is not possible. Since once known, that knowledge could be written down. And when later read, someone with the ability to change the lessor events leading up to the main event, could guarantee it didn’t happen as written. The best that could be stated about the future is that an infinite number of possibilities exist.

This assumes a non-deterministic state of affairs which is completely absurd. If more than one outcome can arise from identical causal factors, then there is no entailment relation between cause and effect at all.

Quote:We have been taught that God knows everything that will happen in our futures. Even Jesus said the Father knows when the end will come. How could He possibly know the future based on the above reasoning? If He knows what is going to happen tomorrow, then He has a major limitation. He could not write it down for all to read today. Logic says He could not write down that something will happen, when that something could be prevented from happening.

He could right it down for all to read today. And if it determined to be true, then it will happen. You're pushing libertarian free will without even realizing it.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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20-10-2017, 07:00 PM
RE: What's wrong with this question?
Such a question depends on what the theist theory about what God does.

For example, if God creates all and is outside of time, all is a Big Now to God, past and future are illusions. Since God created all as it is, he knows all that is and created it that way. We have no free will and all our actions are the total responsibility of God.

Or one could rely on Paul's theology. From the very beginning God decided who will be the elect and the damned. God the great potter of Romans 9 who makes some "vessels" to honor, some to dishonor. Nothing you do or will do has any bearing on this. God knows what you will do because he decided that from the beginning.

There are other scenarios, but to avoid such ugly theologies, one must ignore supposed revelation. Islam is no better.

Marin Luther in his book "Bondage of the Will" goes through the bible and considers the supposed revelations of the Bible. He concludes that free will is impossible. But if so, doesn't that mean all evil is caused by God? Yes. Luther concludes that God then must be inscrutable, incomprehensible. Like wise Augustine and Calvin. That is, logic and rationality are abandoned.

This has all been chewed over for centuries now. And theologians are still trying to figure it all out. Compatabilists for incompatibilists, neo-Pelagians vs sola scriptura theologians.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter
- Thomas Jefferson

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