What's your wheels?
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18-08-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
Quote:I had a '69 Camaro RS with a 327 and a 4-speed that I could boogie down the interstate at 90 MPH and get 23 MPG doing it.

I've had/driven/built several generation 1 camaros like that. I think it has a lot to do with aerodynamics, in the case of that model. If you can find it, there's at least one wind tunnel test online with the gen 1 camaro, and it's eye opening- that is a VERY slick design, pretty hard to beat even with today's computers. I think it was a case of a designer with an innate grasp of fluid dynamics and luck. Most camaro owners who paid attention will tell you they got the most efficient fuel economy at about 93 mph, as well...which the wind tunnel test confirmed. It's pretty amazing, most designs build a low pressure area right behind the vehicle that causes drag...the camaro, with and without the rear spoiler, tends to disrupt the formation of that low pressure area.

It almost has to be dumb luck, or just a savant-like impulse on the part of the design team.
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18-08-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
Fuel economy and engine HP have just about nothing to do with each other -- and everything to do with each other......


Fuel economy is straightforward math. It's all about moving a mass at a given velocity - and factoring in wind drag.


Many people foolishly buy a car with a smaller engine assuming they'll get better gas mileage. It has far less to do with the HP of the engine - but with how the car is driven.

If you've got a big high performance engine - you tend to use it...... A little sewing machine motor -- you use it far less.....

How do I know???

Not too many years ago - I worked for Borroughs Tool and Equipment -- at the time the US industry standard in factory test fuel economy gear... We built the fuel mileage testers the industry used to measure gas mileage for fleet standards....


I've seen a few things....

And there was never a carburetor that you could bolt on your Chevy sedan and get 100 mpg.. It just doesn't work that way.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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18-08-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
(18-08-2016 12:24 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  
Quote:I had a '69 Camaro RS with a 327 and a 4-speed that I could boogie down the interstate at 90 MPH and get 23 MPG doing it.

I've had/driven/built several generation 1 camaros like that. I think it has a lot to do with aerodynamics, in the case of that model. If you can find it, there's at least one wind tunnel test online with the gen 1 camaro, and it's eye opening- that is a VERY slick design, pretty hard to beat even with today's computers. I think it was a case of a designer with an innate grasp of fluid dynamics and luck. Most camaro owners who paid attention will tell you they got the most efficient fuel economy at about 93 mph, as well...which the wind tunnel test confirmed. It's pretty amazing, most designs build a low pressure area right behind the vehicle that causes drag...the camaro, with and without the rear spoiler, tends to disrupt the formation of that low pressure area.

It almost has to be dumb luck, or just a savant-like impulse on the part of the design team.

I'll take idiot-savant for the win. Smile J/K, those engineers were far from being idiots. That shape is pretty much back with the new Camaros and Challengers, I see.
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18-08-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
(18-08-2016 01:18 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Fuel economy and engine HP have just about nothing to do with each other -- and everything to do with each other......


Fuel economy is straightforward math. It's all about moving a mass at a given velocity - and factoring in wind drag.


Many people foolishly buy a car with a smaller engine assuming they'll get better gas mileage. It has far less to do with the HP of the engine - but with how the car is driven.

If you've got a big high performance engine - you tend to use it...... A little sewing machine motor -- you use it far less.....

How do I know???

Not too many years ago - I worked for Borroughs Tool and Equipment -- at the time the US industry standard in factory test fuel economy gear... We built the fuel mileage testers the industry used to measure gas mileage for fleet standards....


I've seen a few things....

And there was never a carburetor that you could bolt on your Chevy sedan and get 100 mpg.. It just doesn't work that way.

I agree with everything, with one caveat...fuel economy is straightforward math in the laboratory...in RW it isn't nearly as black and white. So many variables, it just cannot be accurately predicted across the board, outside of the lab. Driver methodology, terrain, ambient temps and humidity, wind, traffic...it's just a quagmire.

I agree about engine size...within limits, you're better off going with a larger engine that just has to loaf to do it's job, than a tiny engine that is running maxed out most of the time. There again, as you said, is the problem that people tend to drive bigger engines harder, negating the advantage.

The solution to that is de-rating. However, point to a car that was sold de-rated that wasn't soon modified to take advantage of it's potential, lol...it's a losing situation in RW.

He-who-shall-not-be-named, otherwise known as the Mustang II, is a prime example. They were sold with a ridiculously de-rated 302. The things were ugly Pinto-sired beasts that frequently were struck from behind due to their inability to get out of their own way.
Within minutes of the first sale, aftermarket was offering bolt on kits that would gain you 75 horsepower. It was just the heads and exhaust from a real Mustang, and a jet set for the carb.
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18-08-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
(18-08-2016 01:20 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 12:24 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  I've had/driven/built several generation 1 camaros like that. I think it has a lot to do with aerodynamics, in the case of that model. If you can find it, there's at least one wind tunnel test online with the gen 1 camaro, and it's eye opening- that is a VERY slick design, pretty hard to beat even with today's computers. I think it was a case of a designer with an innate grasp of fluid dynamics and luck. Most camaro owners who paid attention will tell you they got the most efficient fuel economy at about 93 mph, as well...which the wind tunnel test confirmed. It's pretty amazing, most designs build a low pressure area right behind the vehicle that causes drag...the camaro, with and without the rear spoiler, tends to disrupt the formation of that low pressure area.

It almost has to be dumb luck, or just a savant-like impulse on the part of the design team.

I'll take idiot-savant for the win. Smile J/K, those engineers were far from being idiots. That shape is pretty much back with the new Camaros and Challengers, I see.

lol I just said savant, not idiot-savant! A brilliant engineer can still have a spark of creative genius beyond his standard level of intelligence!

I am awed by the genius that aviation and the automotive world inspired. The things they accomplished with nothing but pad, paper and slide rule are phenomenal .

My father flew with Chuck Yeager at Muroc back in the 50's, and they remained friends. When I was a kid, Chuck and Glennis would visit us occasionally in this huge motorhome they had. I remember thinking "This guy is just an idiot with a funky accent". He certainly didn't seem very smart or impressive at the time. He and my dad socked away the booze like sewer pipes.
Years later, after reading accounts of Chuck's exploits, and Jack Ridley's accomplishments...I was just stunned. That guy? The drunk guy I couldn't understand half the time??

It really changed my world view, and made me look beyond the cover of the book.
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18-08-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
What Were Your Wheels?

1964 Chrysler New Yorker (black and marroon fugly)
1973 Ford Mustang Grande, 351 Cleveland (totaled it, I still miss it)
1981 Toyota pickup
1983 Mazda RX-7, rotary engine (stolen)
1991 Isuzu Trooper 4x4 (traveled the country sleeping in it)
1997 Ford F-150 4x4 extended cab w/ Triton engine
1999 Ford Explorer 4x4
1999 Infiniti QX4 4x4
2009 Acura MDX AWD

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-08-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
(18-08-2016 03:07 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  What Were Your Wheels?

1964 Chrysler New Yorker (black and marroon fugly)
1973 Ford Mustang Grande, 351 Cleveland (totaled it, I still miss it)
1981 Toyota pickup
1983 Mazda RX-7, rotary engine (stolen)
1991 Isuzu Trooper 4x4 (traveled the country sleeping in it)
1997 Ford F-150 4x4 extended cab w/ Triton engine
1999 Ford Explorer 4x4
1999 Infiniti QX4 4x4
2009 Acura MDX AWD

I wanna hear about the 81 yota!

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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18-08-2016, 04:24 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
(18-08-2016 03:24 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 03:07 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  What Were Your Wheels?

1964 Chrysler New Yorker (black and marroon fugly)
1973 Ford Mustang Grande, 351 Cleveland (totaled it, I still miss it)
1981 Toyota pickup
1983 Mazda RX-7, rotary engine (stolen)
1991 Isuzu Trooper 4x4 (traveled the country sleeping in it)
1997 Ford F-150 4x4 extended cab w/ Triton engine
1999 Ford Explorer 4x4
1999 Infiniti QX4 4x4
2009 Acura MDX AWD

I wanna hear about the 81 yota!

I put about 160,000 miles on it, never gave me a problem.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-08-2016, 10:59 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
Quote:I wanna hear about the 81 yota!


I put about 160,000 miles on it, never gave me a problem.

I picked up an '88 4runner, v6 4x4 in Alaska back in...98 or so. I just bought it as a fishing rig, so I didn't have to unpack all of my gear.

I went ahead and brought it to Texas when we moved back, and ended up rhino lining the whole thing, inside and out, tinting the windows, redoing the interior, putting a nice stereo system in it, giving it a 6 inch lift and 35x16.50's all the way around, with ranch hand style pipe bumpers front and back. Pretty nice looking, and damned near bulletproof. I decided to girl it up a little and give it to one of my daughters to take to college, so she'd be safer. Taught her to drive a stick, and off she went. Several years later we bought her a new car and the 4runner came home. My intention was...is..to rip the 3.0 v6 out when it croaks, and do the 4.3 liter chevy conversion. I already have a beautiful 4.3 built and ready to go, just waiting for the 3.0 to die...

The problem is, the 4runner now has 433,988.7 miles on it, and it still purrs like a kitten. Uses a half quart of oil every 1000 miles or so. AC blows ice cold. Everything works.

I'm never gonna get my Super 4Runner. Facepalm
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19-08-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: What's your wheels?
Some problem you have there, hard to kill a Toyota, that's why resale values are so high.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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