What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
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29-01-2014, 03:58 PM
What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 03:15 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 02:53 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Some responses in this thread have suggested there might be only a single act which might prove God to any given atheist. I suspect it may take many. Any given act would only prove the entity capable of that act, not omnipotence.

Yebo, but if said purported deity said "By the way I know everything" and proceeded to prove it by e.g. telling me what porn I like to watch and... oh wait US govt can do that... but you know, that kinda drill. Telling me what I was thinking etc. Then at least I'd have to entertain the idea of omniscience. If he said "I can do *anything*" and proceeded to chuck stuff around, juggle 128 plates, that kinda thing... I'd have to entertain the idea of omnipotence...

If the entity tells you what you're thinking, all he has proven is that he knows what's on your mind. This is far from omniscience. Entertaining the idea this entity is a deity, let alone The Deity, is premature at that juncture.

Dude, you're gonna get trolled by aliens if you're that easy.

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29-01-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 03:58 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Dude, you're gonna get trolled by aliens if you're that easy.

They told me you're a liar Angry

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-01-2014, 04:43 PM
What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 04:02 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 03:58 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Dude, you're gonna get trolled by aliens if you're that easy.

They told me you're a liar Angry

Ok, that's a step in the right direction...I think. We may be making progress here.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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29-01-2014, 05:11 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 02:53 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 01:38 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Hmm I see your question, let me answer it with an example:
Question: "How can you prove there is a God someone is a doctor?"

Possible Answer(PA): "Because he wears a white coat!"
~Well anyone can wear a white coat, that doesn't really prove anything.

PA: "Because he's rich and smart!"
~So is Trump, doesn't make him a doctor.

PA: "Because he's very knowledgeable about anatomy and the likes!"
~Anyone can study anatomy and the likes, once again, that doesn't prove anything.

PA: "You can test him!"
~Psh, anyone can cheat on a test!

Now stop right here. Test him/her/it/whatever. But how? What is the true test of a doctor?
Not that they have the knowledge, but how they use it. They can "heal the sick" per say, and do it repeatedly with predictable results. They don't have to do it while you're alone when no one can see, they can do it anywhere at anytime, with any provocation.

(Before I get the "doctors can't perform surgery in such-a-such place" or "doctors can't heal such-a-such disease", realize this is only an analogy, and just like everything else on this world: it isn't perfect.)

There is always a way to prove a "theory" or "fact." Although, the same cannot be said for a "hypothesis."

An important point is revealed through this analogy: it may take time and repetition for a doctor to prove his abilities to any given person.

Some responses in this thread have suggested there might be only a single act which might prove God to any given atheist. I suspect it may take many. Any given act would only prove the entity capable of that act, not omnipotence.

Exactly, but the end result is the same. If you truly are who you say you are, you can eventually prove it. Although, this is with a human example. With an all knowing, all powerful God, saying that he couldn't prove himself to everyone is limiting him, and therefore would not be what you claim.

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29-01-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 03:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 11:01 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How the hell am i supposed to know what the evidence is supposed to be? the obvious "Signature of God" is simply not there so i have no judgments to make.

its like imagining a color that you can't see in the visible spectrum. Evidence:The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

If you don't know what you're looking for, how can you claim it's lacking? Or do you lack belief that you can define what evidence is? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

If your God is truly all powerful and all knowing, we shouldn't have to be questioning "Well maybe this is a sign..."
The fact that you have to question at all shows that your God does not know how to effectively communicate with you, meaning he is not all knowing and/or all powerful and not what you claim.

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29-01-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 05:15 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 03:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  If you don't know what you're looking for, how can you claim it's lacking? Or do you lack belief that you can define what evidence is? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

If your God is truly all powerful and all knowing, we shouldn't have to be questioning "Well maybe this is a sign..."
The fact that you have to question at all shows that your God does not know how to effectively communicate with you, meaning he is not all knowing and/or all powerful and not what you claim.

I do find it interesting that most atheists assume I'm a theist. This "us and them" divide seems to be either "you're with us or against us".

Do Sceptics only question theism?
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29-01-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 06:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 05:15 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  If your God is truly all powerful and all knowing, we shouldn't have to be questioning "Well maybe this is a sign..."
The fact that you have to question at all shows that your God does not know how to effectively communicate with you, meaning he is not all knowing and/or all powerful and not what you claim.

I do find it interesting that most atheists assume I'm a theist. This "us and them" divide seems to be either "you're with us or against us".

Do Sceptics only question theism?

No Smile ... nice to see you in other threads by the way Thumbsup

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29-01-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 06:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Do Sceptics only question theism?
According to these posts (and many others), that is evidently not the case. Sleepy

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29-01-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 06:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 05:15 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  If your God is truly all powerful and all knowing, we shouldn't have to be questioning "Well maybe this is a sign..."
The fact that you have to question at all shows that your God does not know how to effectively communicate with you, meaning he is not all knowing and/or all powerful and not what you claim.

I do find it interesting that most atheists assume I'm a theist. This "us and them" divide seems to be either "you're with us or against us".

Do Sceptics only question theism?

Believe nothing, question everything.
The "divide" you speak of, is in this thread. You posted in a debate thread defending, or at least seemed like defending, theism. You really surprised you got a reply like mine?

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29-01-2014, 08:27 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 07:26 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 06:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Do Sceptics only question theism?
According to these posts (and many others), that is evidently not the case. Sleepy


Ok I will rephrase, do the vast majority of sceptics only question theism? It seems rather odd to identify as something (i.e. an atheist), but still question why you believe it to be a valid conclusion (atheism)? I will guess you feel perfectly justified in the suspension of belief to validate your atheism. I find it a tenuous reason as it lacks a basis for knowing anything.

Do you question scepticism or is this philosophy the safest method to assess existence, despite the inherent lack of conclusions? Do you question empiricism? and if so, how?
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