What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
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29-01-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 08:01 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 06:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I do find it interesting that most atheists assume I'm a theist. This "us and them" divide seems to be either "you're with us or against us".

Do Sceptics only question theism?

Believe nothing, question everything.
The "divide" you speak of, is in this thread. You posted in a debate thread defending, or at least seemed like defending, theism. You really surprised you got a reply like mine?

No not surprised. The divide I speak of is very apparent to me, obviously not to you.

I must admit I find scepticism to be the equivalent of a meandering Woody Allen movie. Given it seems like the majority here, I think I'm in the wrong place.
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29-01-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 08:31 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Blah blah blah....scepticism.....Given it seems like the majority here, I think I'm in the wrong place.

And you are welcome to take your disingenuous quibbling and obnoxious empty rhetoric and go.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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29-01-2014, 09:02 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 08:31 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 08:01 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Believe nothing, question everything.
The "divide" you speak of, is in this thread. You posted in a debate thread defending, or at least seemed like defending, theism. You really surprised you got a reply like mine?

No not surprised. The divide I speak of is very apparent to me, obviously not to you.

I must admit I find scepticism to be the equivalent of a meandering Woody Allen movie. Given it seems like the majority here, I think I'm in the wrong place.

It's funny you say this.
Honestly, what is atheism? Why do we have this word? Is it not natural to be born an "atheist"? We don't have a word for someone who doesn't have a hobby. Why not religion?
What I'm trying to get at here, is that we (or at least me, I can't speak for everyone) did not necessarily choose to be "atheist". We just chose the path that's right for our lives. That term is put on us, so we wear it in spite.
The reason we are so skeptical of theism is because they cause problems with us. Whether personally, politically or just through blatant arrogant acts. We are skeptical of theism because they, in a sense, have painted a target on their own back.

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29-01-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 09:02 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  We are skeptical of theism because they, in a sense, have painted a target on their own back.

Because evidence works, Bitchez.

Making shit up doesn't work.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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29-01-2014, 09:07 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 09:02 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 08:31 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  No not surprised. The divide I speak of is very apparent to me, obviously not to you.

I must admit I find scepticism to be the equivalent of a meandering Woody Allen movie. Given it seems like the majority here, I think I'm in the wrong place.

It's funny you say this.
Honestly, what is atheism? Why do we have this word? Is it not natural to be born an "atheist"? We don't have a word for someone who doesn't have a hobby. Why not religion?
What I'm trying to get at here, is that we (or at least me, I can't speak for everyone) did not necessarily choose to be "atheist". We just chose the path that's right for our lives. That term is put on us, so we wear it in spite.
The reason we are so skeptical of theism is because they cause problems with us. Whether personally, politically or just through blatant arrogant acts. We are skeptical of theism because they, in a sense, have painted a target on their own back.

I agree. I don't identify as an atheist as it's not a worthwhile label about me. That's is what I find so confusing about atheism. Like you said so you wear it in spite, that doesn't seem like a valid reason to me.
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29-01-2014, 09:13 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 09:07 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 09:02 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  It's funny you say this.
Honestly, what is atheism? Why do we have this word? Is it not natural to be born an "atheist"? We don't have a word for someone who doesn't have a hobby. Why not religion?
What I'm trying to get at here, is that we (or at least me, I can't speak for everyone) did not necessarily choose to be "atheist". We just chose the path that's right for our lives. That term is put on us, so we wear it in spite.
The reason we are so skeptical of theism is because they cause problems with us. Whether personally, politically or just through blatant arrogant acts. We are skeptical of theism because they, in a sense, have painted a target on their own back.

I agree. I don't identify as an atheist as it's not a worthwhile label about me. That's is what I find so confusing about atheism. Like you said so you wear it in spite, that doesn't seem like a valid reason to me.

I guess you could compare it to other civil rights activity. Why are we looked down upon? Shunned from our families, friends, workplace? Why do we have to hide in fear?
Why, when I was in middle school I was all alone? Why was I afraid of telling my family the truth? Why do I still, 12 years later, not tell most of them?
I say I'm an atheist to raise awareness, not necessarily to debate theism, although the two seem to be intertwined.
I will admit, I've had times where I've openly mocked, argued and debated just for fun or to make the other person/party look bad. I'll not excuse it, though, what's the difference from what they do to us?
Religion is the trump card for anything you want. It must end.

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29-01-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 08:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Ok I will rephrase, do the vast majority of sceptics only question theism?
I would never presume to speak on behalf of such a large number of people. As it happens, I don't have an evidentiary basis (e.g. a statistic) for an answer to that question either.

(29-01-2014 08:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  It seems rather odd to identify as something (i.e. an atheist), but still question why you believe it to be a valid conclusion (atheism)? I will guess you feel perfectly justified in the suspension of belief to validate your atheism. I find it a tenuous reason as it lacks a basis for knowing anything.
I don't know where you are getting the idea from that that is my view on this topic; I recommend sticking to what I write in my posts.

(29-01-2014 08:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Do you question scepticism or is this philosophy the safest method to assess existence, despite the inherent lack of conclusions? Do you question empiricism? and if so, how?
As a pragmatist at heart, I assess the merit of a philosophy primarily based on its success in practical application. It so happens that skepticism, empiricism and methodological naturalism have done far better than any of the competing philosophies in that regard. I do not know of anything that calls their usefulness into question, do you?

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29-01-2014, 09:29 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 09:07 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 09:02 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  It's funny you say this.
Honestly, what is atheism? Why do we have this word? Is it not natural to be born an "atheist"? We don't have a word for someone who doesn't have a hobby. Why not religion?
What I'm trying to get at here, is that we (or at least me, I can't speak for everyone) did not necessarily choose to be "atheist". We just chose the path that's right for our lives. That term is put on us, so we wear it in spite.
The reason we are so skeptical of theism is because they cause problems with us. Whether personally, politically or just through blatant arrogant acts. We are skeptical of theism because they, in a sense, have painted a target on their own back.

I agree. I don't identify as an atheist as it's not a worthwhile label about me. That's is what I find so confusing about atheism. Like you said so you wear it in spite, that doesn't seem like a valid reason to me.

Wrong again.
You just don't get it. YOU don't get to tell other people (especially people you don't know), what motivates them, and what they think. Are you as totally obnoxious IRL as you appear to be on TTA ? I thank my lucky stars I know no one, and don't have to work or live with anyone as obnoxious and pig-headed as you.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-01-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
We live in very different worlds. Theists are a minority here and as such the term atheist means nothing to me.
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29-01-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(29-01-2014 09:25 PM)Vosur Wrote:  As a pragmatist at heart, I assess the merit of a philosophy primarily based on its success in practical application. It so happens that skepticism, empiricism and methodological naturalism have done far better than any of the competing philosophies in that regard. I do not know of anything that calls their usefulness into question, do you?

Yes I know your focus on practical application. How would you propose that rationalism, for example, would provide a better insight into practical application than empiricism?
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