What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
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30-01-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You misrepresent my position. The position is "lack of evidence" -> "lack of belief".

What? You expect different from an eponymous troll?

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30-01-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 05:41 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You misrepresent my position. The position is "lack of evidence" -> "lack of belief".

There's a difference?

Yes, and it has been explained by many here in many ways. You do not see a difference, many do.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-01-2014, 06:05 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 04:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I don't see how pragmatism would be useful in regard to addressing the possible existence of a deity, as it appears you will need to apply either empiricism or rationalism to ultimately rationalise your perspective in this instance.
It depends on the deity in question, I suppose. On the one hand, I don't see why we couldn't, in theory, find evidence of a creator who resides within the boundaries of our universe, for instance. On the other hand, neither empiricism, nor rationalism are any useful when it comes to finding out things about a deity that is not part of our own reality. Assuming that there is anything 'beyond' our universe, we virtually have no knowledge about any of its properties. But it's not only that, the double-slit experiment has shown that human intuition is not even a reliable tool for finding out things about our own universe.

I don't care much for labels, but I think that "apatheism" describes my position, or rather, my attitude, towards supernatural deities much better than atheism or agnosticism ever could.

(30-01-2014 04:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Everyone does do it, I'm unsure why you believe you've absolved yourself from this.
I don't know where you're getting that idea from, considering that you responded to a blanket assertion of mine in that very post, e.g. "No, it doesn't."

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30-01-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 03:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 02:53 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Such as in the practical application, how vague.
You want me to be more specific? Very well then. The scientific method is an integral part of the philosophies I have mentioned earlier in this thread and it has proven itself to be the most effective tool we currently have for gathering knowledge about our universe in a reliable and objective manner. Every scientific discovery, every new invention, every technological development is further evidence to support the view that pragmatism, and with that, empiricism and methodological naturalism are useful in practical applications.

Of course, that is not to say that other epistemological philosophies don't have their own uses. Rationalism, for instance, can be useful in theoretical areas such as in mathematics.

(30-01-2014 02:53 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I don't think anyone is in the position to assess a suitable epistemology for anyone else.
As it happens, I have never attempted to do anything remotely similar. I have repeatedly stressed the point that I am merely stating my own assessment, in fact.

(30-01-2014 02:53 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Your comment implies otherwise.
No, it doesn't. You see, it's quite easy to make blanket assertions without ever substantiating them; anyone can do it.

Now y'all can see why I've been keeping that puppy on the paper.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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30-01-2014, 08:46 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 08:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 03:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
You want me to be more specific? Very well then. The scientific method is an integral part of the philosophies I have mentioned earlier in this thread and it has proven itself to be the most effective tool we currently have for gathering knowledge about our universe in a reliable and objective manner. Every scientific discovery, every new invention, every technological development is further evidence to support the view that pragmatism, and with that, empiricism and methodological naturalism are useful in practical applications.

Of course, that is not to say that other epistemological philosophies don't have their own uses. Rationalism, for instance, can be useful in theoretical areas such as in mathematics.

As it happens, I have never attempted to do anything remotely similar. I have repeatedly stressed the point that I am merely stating my own assessment, in fact.

No, it doesn't. You see, it's quite easy to make blanket assertions without ever substantiating them; anyone can do it.

Now y'all can see why I've been keeping that puppy on the paper.

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30-01-2014, 09:51 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2014 10:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 04:16 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  How would you know that I was obnoxious (like you presume me to be) in real life? As shown by the question mark "?", this is an actual question.

All your presumptuous prejudiced posts demonstrate your extreme prejudice, and your obnoxious self, since you got here. Only an idiot could miss that.

3. More irrelevant drivel. You are very good at that.

(30-01-2014 04:16 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  4. You don't grasp much do you? (This is rhetorical) You claim to have reached igtheism/atheism without being influenced by anyone else. I would call bullshit. Do you deny any cultural impact, or by today's scientific paradigms, educational system, hell you may have even read some books which swayed your thought. Your claim of being an ideological island would require some justification would it not?

More bullshit. I said I, (as in ME) studied the origins and culture of the Bible and ancient Near East. With that information, I made MY OWN decisions. No one did it for me. AN atheist is someone who is not a theist. I am not a theist. You continue to attempt to FORCE your definitions on others, you ignorant perverse troll. In fact the STUDY of religion had the MOST influence. Every human collects information, and draws a conclusion. Your attempt to invalidate, and devalue that process is preposterous, and idiotic. It's called "education".

(30-01-2014 04:16 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Very original, this has been used by tourette's. Are you a sock-puppet?

No dear. Your bullshit just brings out the best in people. Your presumptuous need for cognitive closure is what is dreary.
I see you have no real position, nor can you answer your critics. You NEED to project your opinions on others. That's the ONLY way you can deal with life. How pathetic.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-01-2014, 10:01 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 04:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I don't see.....

Hard to see with your head up your ass.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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30-01-2014, 10:06 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
A plausible coherent tenable theory supported by observation subject to change is my evidence of a creator. It ain't yours?

#sigh
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30-01-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 04:46 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I have no idea why this dependence on the lack of evidence results in a lack of belief.

Quite possibly the stupidest thing ever uttered on Teh Interwebz.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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30-01-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: What sort of evidence would it take for atheists to believe in a creator?
(30-01-2014 05:40 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 05:21 PM)toadaly Wrote:  ...is a self referential system, really less plausible than the alternative...which would be a system of infinite references?

There is one other. Wink

I guess I'm too dense to see it.

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