What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
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03-04-2017, 07:47 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(02-04-2017 11:40 PM)whateverist Wrote:  I think we all are if it is successfully implanted from birth by otherwise good parents who hold moderate beliefs which don't too glaringly run afoul of well established science. If the parents are essentially successful in the world with good people skills and get you praying to a God they fervently believe is right there with you .. you're probably hooked. Hell, you might even enjoy it. Many who have contracted god-belief will tell you they do not want the cure.

Its pretty hard to form a single psychological explanation for a phenomenon that affects about 97% of the global population, compared to the remaining 3%. Particularly when we're speaking in the billions, and across every culture, economic level, education, etc....

But I do think there's some truth to your assessment, I read a study recently, that showed that if you had positive religious influences in your life, you're more likely to be a believer, we're as negative experiences with religious people, lends more to rejecting that religion.

And as a religious person myself, I can say that having a religious mother, who I idealize in some way, has been a significant contributor to my sustained religious beliefs, friends, and community also play a role as well. I'd imagine if I was more receptive to the crowds who tend to see religion as a great evil, or a world of religious villains I might have been more receptive to disbelief.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-04-2017, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2017 08:18 PM by Aliza.)
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(02-04-2017 11:40 PM)whateverist Wrote:  I think we all are if it is successfully implanted from birth by otherwise good parents who hold moderate beliefs which don't too glaringly run afoul of well established science. If the parents are essentially successful in the world with good people skills and get you praying to a God they fervently believe is right there with you .. you're probably hooked. Hell, you might even enjoy it. Many who have contracted god-belief will tell you they do not want the cure.

So if a person has been raised in a good home with stable, successful parents who impart moderate religious values that don't clash with science, then what exactly is there to cure?

Edit: (as Full Circle pointed out below) I'll change what I said from religious values to religious beliefs.
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03-04-2017, 08:14 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 07:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 11:40 PM)whateverist Wrote:  I think we all are if it is successfully implanted from birth by otherwise good parents who hold moderate beliefs which don't too glaringly run afoul of well established science. If the parents are essentially successful in the world with good people skills and get you praying to a God they fervently believe is right there with you .. you're probably hooked. Hell, you might even enjoy it. Many who have contracted god-belief will tell you they do not want the cure.

So if a person has been raised in a good home with stable, successful parents who impart moderate religious values that don't clash with science, then what exactly is there to cure?

To be fair you changed “moderate beliefs” to “moderate religious values” not that if you interchanged them it would substantially change your question, or would it? Consider

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-04-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 07:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
then what exactly is there to cure?

Dunno. Maybe just dietary foibles?

[Image: 122622%20Honey%20Cured%20Ham_250.jpg]

(Yeah, I know, you don't need to tell me, I'm a bad Jew)

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03-04-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 07:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 11:40 PM)whateverist Wrote:  I think we all are if it is successfully implanted from birth by otherwise good parents who hold moderate beliefs which don't too glaringly run afoul of well established science. If the parents are essentially successful in the world with good people skills and get you praying to a God they fervently believe is right there with you .. you're probably hooked. Hell, you might even enjoy it. Many who have contracted god-belief will tell you they do not want the cure.


And as a religious person myself, I can say that having a religious mother, who I idealize in some way, has been a significant contributor to my sustained religious beliefs, friends, and community also play a role as well. I'd imagine if I was more receptive to the crowds who tend to see religion as a great evil, or a world of religious villains I might have been more receptive to disbelief.


Fortunately for you then, since you like your god belief, you were susceptible to your mom and community's influence. Enjoy.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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03-04-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 08:14 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 07:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  So if a person has been raised in a good home with stable, successful parents who impart moderate religious values that don't clash with science, then what exactly is there to cure?

To be fair you changed “moderate beliefs” to “moderate religious values” not that if you interchanged them it would substantially change your question, or would it? Consider

I didn't notice the slip. To me religious values and beliefs are pretty much the same thing, but that may be because I'm from an action based religion, not a faith or belief based religion. I don't think it changes the question, though. Even if someone was raised to believe in Jesus, does that automatically mean that they need to be cured? Adding to that, the question is about someone from a well adjusted home.

What exactly is there to cure?
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03-04-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 08:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  What exactly is there to cure?

It would be an excellent start if we could cure theists of thinking they know what they only believe. All sorts of mischief springs from that proclivity.
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03-04-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
An old friend of mine was raised in the same town and also raised Catholic. After college he ended up here in TX along with some of our other classmates...in the Austin area where some of them were quite involved in the music scene. They also had good jobs and some of them married and some had children while there though the friend I speak of remained single and childless.

In 1986 or 87 he was hit by a car when he was walking across the street in Austin. He was quite badly injured and his recovery saw him moving back to our home town to his mother's house. A lot of time was spent in bed, mostly immobile and alone. I visited a couple times and found a completely different person from the one I had known since the 6th grade...nearly 20 years before.

For want of a better way to put it, he had done many countless hours of soul-searching. His life in Austin was pretty crazy...I was actually a little surprised by stories of lots of drug use and wife swapping among other things. The big change occurred after he had physically healed and moved back to Texas where he began to pick up his life where he had left it...then he stopped. He moved to Arizona, became totally evangelical, works for churches, belongs to a mega church and can really be a preachy jerk.

I would like to be able to say he had suffered a head injury...I have seen the old friend under what I think to be a façade of religiosity. When he tells his story he says he was a 'seeker'. I think he felt his life was spiraling out of control and he grasped for what he thought would help him leave his old self behind. He is ultra-conservative and during our last face-to-face conversation I found out he is extremely homophobic, which he rationalizes with Bible verses.

I think some people turn to religion because they are vulnerable. It's a place and a way to fit into a group.

It's a shame because I like the old him a whole lot better than the new and probably better than I would have liked the one during his Austin phase, had I been around. Confused

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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03-04-2017, 09:00 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 08:32 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  What exactly is there to cure?

It would be an excellent start if we could cure theists of thinking they know what they only believe. All sorts of mischief springs from that proclivity.

That's true of all people, though. ALL groups of people can hold beliefs that are irrational, illogical, based on faulty data, or based entirely on personal preferences. ALL people need to learn the skill of thinking critically. I'm pretty sure if we could all do that, we wouldn't care if someone also believes in Jesus, Vishnu, or they choose to wrap their heads in a scarf, or whatever else.

I'm a lot less worried about what people think in their heads than I am about how those thoughts affect them mentally, socially and developmentally. Thinking Jesus is real doesn't negatively impact someone's life. Being unable to function in normative society is the real problem.
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03-04-2017, 10:01 PM
RE: What sort of person is susceptible to the god delusion?
(03-04-2017 09:00 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm a lot less worried about what people think in their heads than I am about how those thoughts affect them mentally, socially and developmentally. Thinking Jesus is real doesn't negatively impact someone's life. Being unable to function in normative society is the real problem.

I disagree, it impacts mine and everyone else’s. It impacts real world decision-making.

I’ll use one example, environmental issues. Because thinking that their time on earth is but a pit-stop on our way to heaven those people end up treating the planet with incredible short-sightedness. Jeebus is going to rapture me and make all this a moot point changes how they interact with the world and others.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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