What the hell is "the welfare state"?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-05-2016, 08:03 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
It's called survival. It's as old as we are. Gotta feed that mouth, gotta get that body out of the weather, want those creature comforts.

Hippies struggled with that, and so do Millennials.

One day I stood on the top floor of a building in San Francisco at 5pm and looked out over the city. And the flood gates opened and all those little ants spilled into the streets. An undulating mass of ants. And each of those ants had it's own purpose, striding towards their own little cubicle, complete with daily worries and expectations.

Thing is, we are wired to survive and procreate. If one thing won't turn you into an ant, the other will.

Some of us set ourselves apart from the masses in one way or another, some fall into step, and some can't keep up for one reason or another.

So, yes, we are all slaves - to our instincts of survival and procreation.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
15-05-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
There's nothing wrong with being lazy but there is something wrong with expecting everyone else to pay for your laziness. Welfare was intended to be a "pick me up", a helping hand when people were down on their luck and to help them until they got back on their feet. What it's become is a way of life for entire communities. And, it's not doing those communities any great favors as it keeps them trapped in poverty. The way the welfare system is set up is you are penalized for being married, you are penalized for finding even low paying work. You are given no incentive to marginally better yourself and every disincentive to stay trapped.

Welfare has created an entire class of people who are completely dependent on the state to survive and who are completely trapped in poverty. The "Great Society" was billed as an end to poverty but all it did was ensure poverty continued in perpetuity And politicians, and really the Democrats, made an unspoken deal with African Americans in inner cities. The deal goes something like this: the Democrats promised to provide them with lousy schools, no job opportunities, minimal police protection against criminal and instead a police force that treats everyone like a criminal but they will provide money to keep people in line and in return the african american community will vote for these people every election. It's a sweet deal that makes you scratch your head over and over. The way it makes no sense for poor whites to vote Republican over and over is the same way it doesn't make sense for poor blacks to vote Democrat over and over. But, in reality the Republicans aren't offering them anything either and are just blaming them for all their problems, so maybe in the case of poor blacks it makes more sense. The Democrats at least talk the talk.

How someone can look at this system and think it's ok, and there is nothing wrong with being on welfare, is a mystery to me. I'm betting the OP has never spent any quality time in the neighborhoods of the average American city.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BnW's post
15-05-2016, 08:54 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(14-05-2016 02:43 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(14-05-2016 02:36 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Who said there's anything wrong with being lazy????


I had a boss who once told me --- "If you want to find the best way to do a job - give it to the laziest son of a bitch in the shop the job -- and he'll find the easiest way to get the job done. The easiest is almost always the best way....

Hard work is for people who can't figure out how to handle heavy machinery.....

......

I think you're being a bit myopic about political parties.

The big two BOTH suck the sweat off a dead man's balls.... (no I don't know what that really means -- it's just a favorite line from "Good Morning Vietnam" - and I've been looking for someplace to use it all week....)

....


And as far as "printing money" --- the MAJORITY of "money" these days is simply a bigassed number with lots of zeroes after it in a computer.... You can print paper money 24/7 these days -- and unless you come up with denominations bigger than a $100 -(lots bigger)--- it will NEVER catch up to the false reality stuck inside those computers. In other words -- inflation isn't because there's too much paper.....
Why is there so much inflation then? This post seems to leave more questions than answers. Not that I necessarily disagree with you. I've noticed though, that inflation has been something that has been happening for probably over 100 years now. So, if it's always been happening, then how come it's now all of a sudden a bigger problem than before?

Most money is not real at all. When a bank writes a mortgage they don't have the money lying in a vault to take out and give to you, they just tickle a computer that invents the money out of thin air and sends it to the seller, also as a bunch of 1's and zeros in a computer. Then you are expected t pay the bank back 3 or 4 times hat amount over 20 or 30 years. The paper money that is passed from hand to hand is only a small fraction of the money supply, No I am not an economist, and surely I have some of it wrong, but I believe i am basically correct here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
I live in one of the biggest cities in america, what the fuck? Smh.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(15-05-2016 08:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  There's nothing wrong with being lazy but there is something wrong with expecting everyone else to pay for your laziness. Welfare was intended to be a "pick me up", a helping hand when people were down on their luck and to help them until they got back on their feet. What it's become is a way of life for entire communities. And, it's not doing those communities any great favors as it keeps them trapped in poverty. The way the welfare system is set up is you are penalized for being married, you are penalized for finding even low paying work. You are given no incentive to marginally better yourself and every disincentive to stay trapped.

Welfare has created an entire class of people who are completely dependent on the state to survive and who are completely trapped in poverty. The "Great Society" was billed as an end to poverty but all it did was ensure poverty continued in perpetuity And politicians, and really the Democrats, made an unspoken deal with African Americans in inner cities. The deal goes something like this: the Democrats promised to provide them with lousy schools, no job opportunities, minimal police protection against criminal and instead a police force that treats everyone like a criminal but they will provide money to keep people in line and in return the african american community will vote for these people every election. It's a sweet deal that makes you scratch your head over and over. The way it makes no sense for poor whites to vote Republican over and over is the same way it doesn't make sense for poor blacks to vote Democrat over and over. But, in reality the Republicans aren't offering them anything either and are just blaming them for all their problems, so maybe in the case of poor blacks it makes more sense. The Democrats at least talk the talk.

How someone can look at this system and think it's ok, and there is nothing wrong with being on welfare, is a mystery to me. I'm betting the OP has never spent any quality time in the neighborhoods of the average American city.
Okay, but then you get republicans saying that eating food is a privilege, and wanting to cut billions of dollars from food stamp programs. That seems counter productive. What the heck are these people supposed to do?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(14-05-2016 02:42 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(14-05-2016 02:41 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  That quote by your old boss is actually by bill gates, I'm pretty sure. Lol.

It would have been around 1992 - so I'm guessing not....

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/26/lazy-job/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2016 02:16 PM by BnW.)
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(15-05-2016 11:55 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Okay, but then you get republicans saying that eating food is a privilege, and wanting to cut billions of dollars from food stamp programs. That seems counter productive. What the heck are these people supposed to do?

No, they are not saying eating food is a privilege. This discussion will be a lot easier if we can avoid being hyperbolic about it.

The Republicans view this as a matter of incentives. Their view is that if you dont' give people things for free, they will go out and resolve the problem themselves. If you don't have the money to feed yourself, you will go out and get a job.

In theory, I think that logic is great. In reality, it has some issues. One of the major issues is that many of these people don't have the skills necessary to get a job that pays well enough for them to survive without assistance. So, you've got larger economic issues in play here that result from a combination of things, including years of neglect of the inner cities and the impacts of globalization - which is creating winners and losers all over the world. And, Americans without at least a 4 year degree (and even a scary % of those people) are finding themselves as the losers in globalization. Basically, they are looking at simple solutions to complex problems. "I'll just reduce the amount of food stamps they can get, that will force them to go out and get jobs". It's a great idea if those jobs exist, but too often they don't. At least, not for the people they are trying to motivate.

Btw, one of the reasons people who make minimum wage still need public assistance and things like food stamps is because we provide public assistance and food stamps. If we did not, then people couldn't afford to earn only $7.50/hour (or whatever it pays) and couldn't take those jobs. What ends up happening is we subsidize companies like McDonald's by the tax payers filling in the gap on their crappy wages. McDonald's could never get away with paying people this poorly if people who worked for them were literally starving to death. So, it's a vicious cycle to which there is no easy way to break it.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BnW's post
15-05-2016, 03:31 PM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
I only read the first post as I have too much experience talking with Americans on this subject. Who frankly, have little to zero knowledge of what it even is. Most think it some kind of idiotic commie plot.

It is not.

Quite simply, the government, such as Australia (The only country to shake off the GFC), allocates certain taxes to look after those in trouble. Much like taxes fixing roads. So medication is subsidised, hospital and Dr visits taken care of etc. For those unable to find work there is an unemployment benefit and those very ill, such as I, a pension.

Horrible, right? Pure communism, right?

The fact most affluent and civilised nations have this, proves it is not communism.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Banjo's post
15-05-2016, 06:48 PM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(15-05-2016 02:13 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(15-05-2016 11:55 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Okay, but then you get republicans saying that eating food is a privilege, and wanting to cut billions of dollars from food stamp programs. That seems counter productive. What the heck are these people supposed to do?

No, they are not saying eating food is a privilege. This discussion will be a lot easier if we can avoid being hyperbolic about it.

The Republicans view this as a matter of incentives. Their view is that if you dont' give people things for free, they will go out and resolve the problem themselves. If you don't have the money to feed yourself, you will go out and get a job.

In theory, I think that logic is great. In reality, it has some issues. One of the major issues is that many of these people don't have the skills necessary to get a job that pays well enough for them to survive without assistance. So, you've got larger economic issues in play here that result from a combination of things, including years of neglect of the inner cities and the impacts of globalization - which is creating winners and losers all over the world. And, Americans without at least a 4 year degree (and even a scary % of those people) are finding themselves as the losers in globalization. Basically, they are looking at simple solutions to complex problems. "I'll just reduce the amount of food stamps they can get, that will force them to go out and get jobs". It's a great idea if those jobs exist, but too often they don't. At least, not for the people they are trying to motivate.

Btw, one of the reasons people who make minimum wage still need public assistance and things like food stamps is because we provide public assistance and food stamps. If we did not, then people couldn't afford to earn only $7.50/hour (or whatever it pays) and couldn't take those jobs. What ends up happening is we subsidize companies like McDonald's by the tax payers filling in the gap on their crappy wages. McDonald's could never get away with paying people this poorly if people who worked for them were literally starving to death. So, it's a vicious cycle to which there is no easy way to break it.
http://reverbpress.com/politics/economic...privilege/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
And? I didn't say they didn't make cuts. I said the "eating is a privilege" comment is hyperbolic. It is. Finding a partisan web site doesn't change that

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: