What the hell is "the welfare state"?
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24-05-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(14-05-2016 12:10 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  People on welfare. What's the problem with that? Don't answer that just yet, because I have a few more things I want to work out in my head. Okay, first of all, where do republicans get the idea that people are just lazy? I'm usually very appalled by republican points of view, but I want to open up my mind so I can get in on this logic. Who are these lazy people you're talking about, do you know any lazy people on welfare?

Secondly, I heard one republican say that there has to be some people suffering in order for there to be progress. Businesses need to have more money so they can succeed and drive down prices and become more successful so the employees have better job opportunity. That seems like trickle down economics to me, which is another thing I hear republicans talking about with this.

Thirdly, what the hell are these people talking about anyways? There's never any transparency with what republicans say. People are on welfare? Okay, did you ever ask yourself why? Maybe there really is a finite amount of wealth and certain people are hoarding it all. Maybe there's not very good job opportunities, for whatever reason. Maybe inflation has driven down the value of money, the cost of goods goes up, but there's no raise of wage to compensate?

Fourth and finally, what the fuck is with people always saying the government is printing money? I never hear anyone talking about this except republicans. They always say that the government just keeps printing money which is driving up inflation and I suppose that also contributes to the national debt? I always hear this, but I never hear about how unemployment has dropped substantially under obama's presidency, I always hear about how the health care bill sucks and I don't know why people say that. I suspect it has something to do with the obstructionist congress.

In conclusion, I don't want sacrifice the lives of lower class citizens, I think the idea of class is fucking horrible. I'm feeling the Bern.

My best friend is on welfare. He can't get a job, although he searches as much as he can.The welfare system keeps him fed and pays his rent. It also keeps an eye out for possible employment for him. It's a slow process, but it's better than nothing. It works in Norway because we have money well saved and spent.

Your country on the other hand has the idea that you gotta forge your own empire; which is a load of crap. The rich stay rich. The poor stay poor.

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24-05-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(23-05-2016 06:47 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  
(22-05-2016 03:59 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  QE = quarterly earnings?

A tool used by The Federal Reserve Bank and others called "Quantitative Easing".

Quantative Easing explained.

This gets off the topic of "welfare" but, generally, modern central banks have 2 main goals: manage inflation and unemployment. Unfortunately, those 2 things are at odds with each other (very low unemployment is more likely to result in higher inflation). So, central banks target a "natural" rate of unemployment. The idea of a "natural" rate of unemployment is a bit controversial, and it leads to charges that central banks, like the Federal Reserve, are working to keep wages down and manage expectations on behalf of large corporate entities. I'm not quite that paranoid myself but, by accident or design, it does that some of that impact. Having some semblance of unemployment helps keep the economy humming along. There was a period in the mid-90s when the US reached almost full employment and lower wage jobs became increasingly tougher to fill; having to pay people more is going to cause the price of everything to go up.

There was some news this morning about how some in the Fed are saying that the US economy has now reached it's "natural rate" of unemployment and are patting themselves on the back for this accomplishment. Meanwhile, most people I know struggle to get by. The cost of health care, the cost of college, etc., is putting most people in massive debt, or soon will be (depending on the age of their kids). Wages have stagnated (I've not gotten a raise in a few years) and savings rates in the US are abysmal and most Americans could not come up with $400 cash if they needed to. The Atlantic recently did a story about this.

I consider myself really lucky. My wife and I both work and, while she makes 1/3 of what I make, we do well enough to have avoided falling into serious debt. We have debts, of course, but they are not out of control and are all manageable. We put money away each month for retirement (although probably not enough) and some into savings on top of that. Not a ton, not as much as I would like, but I could certainly come up with $400 if I needed to. Unfortunately, some unexpected house issues the past year have drained that savings account quite a bit, but I'm trying to build it back up.

My problem is college. I have 2 sons, age 13 and 15, and they will start college in a few years and we have not made a dent in that cost. I have a plan to start catching up but we're going to have to get very creative. And, hopefully no one gets really sick. Most Americans that go bankrupt get into that situation due to medical bills. If I can avoid that, then my only worry is to figure out how my kids can get through college without accumulating $150k in debt.

The definition of middle class in the US is when you make too much money to qualify for any kind of assistance and too little to afford things. But, even so, I know I'm better off than a lot of people right now. The economy is not nearly as strong as Obama and the Fed want you to believe. Not when you're an ordinary person making ordinary money.

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24-05-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(24-05-2016 10:37 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(23-05-2016 06:47 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  A tool used by The Federal Reserve Bank and others called "Quantitative Easing".

Quantative Easing explained.

This gets off the topic of "welfare" but, generally, modern central banks have 2 main goals: manage inflation and unemployment. Unfortunately, those 2 things are at odds with each other (very low unemployment is more likely to result in higher inflation). So, central banks target a "natural" rate of unemployment. The idea of a "natural" rate of unemployment is a bit controversial, and it leads to charges that central banks, like the Federal Reserve, are working to keep wages down and manage expectations on behalf of large corporate entities. I'm not quite that paranoid myself but, by accident or design, it does that some of that impact. Having some semblance of unemployment helps keep the economy humming along. There was a period in the mid-90s when the US reached almost full employment and lower wage jobs became increasingly tougher to fill; having to pay people more is going to cause the price of everything to go up.

There was some news this morning about how some in the Fed are saying that the US economy has now reached it's "natural rate" of unemployment and are patting themselves on the back for this accomplishment. Meanwhile, most people I know struggle to get by. The cost of health care, the cost of college, etc., is putting most people in massive debt, or soon will be (depending on the age of their kids). Wages have stagnated (I've not gotten a raise in a few years) and savings rates in the US are abysmal and most Americans could not come up with $400 cash if they needed to. The Atlantic recently did a story about this.

I consider myself really lucky. My wife and I both work and, while she makes 1/3 of what I make, we do well enough to have avoided falling into serious debt. We have debts, of course, but they are not out of control and are all manageable. We put money away each month for retirement (although probably not enough) and some into savings on top of that. Not a ton, not as much as I would like, but I could certainly come up with $400 if I needed to. Unfortunately, some unexpected house issues the past year have drained that savings account quite a bit, but I'm trying to build it back up.

My problem is college. I have 2 sons, age 13 and 15, and they will start college in a few years and we have not made a dent in that cost. I have a plan to start catching up but we're going to have to get very creative. And, hopefully no one gets really sick. Most Americans that go bankrupt get into that situation due to medical bills. If I can avoid that, then my only worry is to figure out how my kids can get through college without accumulating $150k in debt.

The definition of middle class in the US is when you make too much money to qualify for any kind of assistance and too little to afford things. But, even so, I know I'm better off than a lot of people right now. The economy is not nearly as strong as Obama and the Fed want you to believe. Not when you're an ordinary person making ordinary money.

Comments on your last sentence. Middle class is whatever one wants to think of it as. I made about $1000 a week for the last 3 or 4 years I worked before retirement. I felt like i was doing great. I read about people who lost their jobs and cannot find any work which pays any more than that figure and they say it isn't worth taking a job that low.
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24-05-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
I guess perspective is everything. If you make twice that and suddenly have to take a 50% pay cut, it would not seem like much money at all.

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06-07-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
Part of the problem is that jobs don't pay a living wage anymore. The other problem is that huge corporations build into their costs of operation loss. Loss by employee error is a big one, because they only want a body that can do a menial task moderately well. I remember being at a supermarket doing security. I had recommended that they replace all their registers and possible their main computer server on many occasions. The owner had the attitude that if it wasn't broken, why fix it? I had actually explained what was wrong quite nicely. Then the moment happened where I was able to show how broken it really was (it gave away a $15 item). I had witnesses to verify my story. The next day he had people in to gather info on the computer system and give a quote on replacing all of it. Within a week, work began on replacing the whole system. They don't want to spend more money ever unless forced. Nobody wants to give raises either. That is why you have to move from job to job. Staying put usually means making the same exact money unless minimum wage climbs above what you already make.
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06-07-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(24-05-2016 07:34 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Terrific information on what has happened with income equality, who has been responsible and with graphs and pics too! Well worth a look.

"Donald Trump's motto is to make America great again, while Bernie Sanders's campaign has focused on reducing income inequality. And there's a reason this message is resonating with voters:

It's grounded in 50 years of reality.

You can see lots of discussion and debate and political fighting over who has wealth in America, and whether that should change. Or, you can look at the the cartoon below to understand how the distribution of wealth has changed in America, and why.”

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/23/11704246/we...ty-cartoon

Sanders only plan is to tax the working class even more. How can I ever climb out of living paycheck to paycheck if I never see a raise and my income goes down because we have to feed people that don't work. For those that really are incapable of working, there is disability. For those that outright refuse, there should be nothing.
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06-07-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(24-05-2016 06:39 AM)BnW Wrote:  This is your average welfare recipient.

What do you mean by "this"? If you mean that's how they live, that's probably true. But, if you mean the average welfare recipient is an elderly invalid, I very much doubt that is the case.

As taking advantage, I think the welfare system more often takes advantage of people than people take advantage of welfare. Sure, there is fraud and people who scheme and steal. There always are. But, when it works, welfare creates a permanent state of poverty from which there is little chance of escape. It's been that way for so long that it's tough to believe it's a bug but seems more like a feature.

Welfare was expanded in the 60s as part of the "war on poverty". The war is over; poverty won. It's time to try something else than paying people nominal amounts and hoping a miracle occurs where they can break the cycle of dependence.

Several years ago now, and I don't even remember when, but those who study such things could probably pop out the month and year, there was a national program (USA) to extend unemployment from the normal 3 months or so to 99 weeks? I knew 2 able bodied men who just couldn't find work no matter how hard they tried, but within a week of their 'bennies' finally running out they both had work!.
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06-07-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: What the hell is "the welfare state"?
(06-07-2016 07:24 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(24-05-2016 07:34 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Terrific information on what has happened with income equality, who has been responsible and with graphs and pics too! Well worth a look.

"Donald Trump's motto is to make America great again, while Bernie Sanders's campaign has focused on reducing income inequality. And there's a reason this message is resonating with voters:

It's grounded in 50 years of reality.

You can see lots of discussion and debate and political fighting over who has wealth in America, and whether that should change. Or, you can look at the the cartoon below to understand how the distribution of wealth has changed in America, and why.”

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/23/11704246/we...ty-cartoon

Sanders only plan is to tax the working class even more. How can I ever climb out of living paycheck to paycheck if I never see a raise and my income goes down because we have to feed people that don't work. For those that really are incapable of working, there is disability. For those that outright refuse, there should be nothing.

Maybe you should study a bit more of Bernie's plan. It was a lot more extensive than that!
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