Poll: What's the biggest problem facing the United States today?
Religion
Lack of Education
Reliance on Figureheads instead of critical thinking
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What the hell is wrong with the United States?
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12-07-2014, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 10:12 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
The problem is the constitution was written two hundred years ago; and the social sciences were only organized about a hundred years ago. It is absolutely stupid to believe that if the founders were tasked with writing a constituion in today's society with the development of economics, law, and communications, that they would not write it differently. Chances are they would better divide the powers of government in accordance with the developed categories of law. They would then better assign the responsibilities to the executors in accordance with macro-economics experience; and they would more likely use the communications networks to keep the House of representatives in their districts so they can perform better community outreach.

If atheists were not so focused on arguing with theists about god, maybe they could see this.

(11-05-2014 02:48 PM)Mr Brightside Wrote:  Now before you get your panties in a knot i don't affiliate with any one singular party.. i think all are equally as backwards as the next. But i gotta say my least favorite is the republicans and those of the same likeness.
Well, i'm just the opposite of you - I think you are a no-brainer, just like the Democrats.

(11-05-2014 02:48 PM)Mr Brightside Wrote:  I think they either need to evolve with the rest of us or die completely. Im tired of being held back by ice age beliefs from these old timers who have obviously no idea what the American people want anymore.
Conservatives want government to be fixed (Change Washington) to function properly, and do not understand that the constitution is the problem. Democrats believe that government is inevitably corrupt and weilding corrupt power is how it works to their favor.

(11-05-2014 02:48 PM)Mr Brightside Wrote:  Congress should work exactly like the presidency.. Term should be 4 years.. voted for by the people. Every 4 years a new vote to either get someone new or keep the same person. But it shouldn't exceed 8 years, just like the president.
You are out to lunch - what is that going to do???

It sounds like you believe that there is a never-ending supply of honest politicians who want to do it for eight years and then go do something else - like what??? Go on the speaking tour taking pot-shots at the political powers that succeed them???
Facepalm

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
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Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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12-07-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(12-05-2014 11:27 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'll take Option 5: The systematic corruption and purchasing of our elected officials by moneyed interests. First we need to fix our government and restore it to a functional republic before we can truly address any further issues.
http://www.wolf-pac.com/the_plan

You better get to work on it bro, because you re not going to be able to organize a group of people to do it for you.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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21-07-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
Wish I could have chosen all the options...how can you separate those things?

For a short answer:

The US is a nation existing on land claimed by the genocide of the native people.

It was built largely by slave labor.

It's been run by racist, sexist capitalist elitists since day one.
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22-07-2014, 07:42 AM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
I voted "Lack of Education" with the thought process being that more education would likely reduce religion and a lack of critical thinking.
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24-07-2014, 12:08 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2014 12:20 PM by Luminon.)
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(22-07-2014 07:42 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I voted "Lack of Education" with the thought process being that more education would likely reduce religion and a lack of critical thinking.
I voted for the critical thinking.
What is education? It's a prison/industrial total institution where young people are herded from one force-fed lesson to another. It was invented by the Austrian empress Mary Theresa to make people better at reading her decrees, so that churchmen don't control the illiterates by reading whatever laws the officer brings to a village.
It had lots of effects, many of them positive, many of them led to formation of nations. But the public schools haven't moved from the educating methods of Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, not one bit!

Trust me, critical thinking can not be taught in such a way. What does it produce? Imagine the brain as a hard drive. The school system fills this hard drive with extremely fragmented information. Students are able to function at repetitive jobs, but they are absolutely unable to gain a greater picture of the society, such as make connections or assign meaning.
For example, "execution", "murder" and a "war" are classified as completely, fundamentally different actions, even though they're empirically the same. Murderers are seen as bad and executing them (usually) takes a long time and lots of trials. But nobody cares if the same "trial" in Iraq lasts a fraction of a second. Murderers are scorned and punished, soldiers are celebrated and glorified (talking Murica here). Even if some students with marginally above average IQ can make the empirical comparison in the case of war, they fail to do so in a few dozen other artificial categories that are an equal nonsense. Thanks Darwin for the Flynn effect. Flynn effect and its higher IQ makes it possible to figure out some of these things on our own - or at least feel awkward about them, so that when someone says it straight, we immediately see it's right.
The other verbal coke and mentos combinations are for example taxation and theft, assault and spanking, divine revelation and schizophrenia, or democracy and mob rule. Not everyone subscribes to all of them, but we should subscribe to none.

Public education is something like the Soviet production of sewing machines - people down there in the factory learn separately to put the part A and part B together and only the supervisors from upper walkways see, that at the end of the line, it's machineguns coming out.
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24-07-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 12:08 PM)Luminon Wrote:  What is education? It's a prison/industrial total institution where young people are herded from one force-fed lesson to another. It was invented by the Austrian empress Mary Theresa to make people better at reading her decrees, so that churchmen don't control the illiterates by reading whatever laws the officer brings to a village.
It had lots of effects, many of them positive, many of them led to formation of nations. But the public schools haven't moved from the educating methods of Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, not one bit!

What. The actual. Fuck.

Read a book.

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24-07-2014, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2014 01:55 PM by Luminon.)
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 01:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  What. The actual. Fuck.

Read a book.

Weeping
No! You fuckin' read a book. What about some Michel Foucault?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_and_Punish
In this book you will learn that modern institutions of education, justice and security are not scientifically designed to work, but they're just random hand-me-downs from the past, ideas slapped together like the stone soup.
In the previous post I have focused on education as a "total institution", also Foucault's concept. People can not be educated in a total institution and then somehow go and build a free society. That's just absurd. However, one thing I'd add to that, families are total institutions too. If there is no special effort to raise children non-violently and voluntarily, making schools more free will not help critical thinking all that much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_institution

And screw you for implying that I don't read books. I think I study more and from more independent sources to gain more universal insight than you, by far. I am so ahead of you in general understanding of social processes, that you can not imagine how I'd arrive at it and so you assume that I must be pulling things out of my ass. The most you had read about society was probably how Bonobo chimps trade sex for status. That and Francis Fukuyama's end of history and capitalist democracy lasting forever.
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24-07-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 12:08 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 07:42 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I voted "Lack of Education" with the thought process being that more education would likely reduce religion and a lack of critical thinking.
I voted for the critical thinking.
What is education? It's a prison/industrial total institution where young people are herded from one force-fed lesson to another. It was invented by the Austrian empress Mary Theresa to make people better at reading her decrees, so that churchmen don't control the illiterates by reading whatever laws the officer brings to a village.
It had lots of effects, many of them positive, many of them led to formation of nations. But the public schools haven't moved from the educating methods of Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, not one bit!

Trust me, critical thinking can not be taught in such a way. What does it produce? Imagine the brain as a hard drive. The school system fills this hard drive with extremely fragmented information. Students are able to function at repetitive jobs, but they are absolutely unable to gain a greater picture of the society, such as make connections or assign meaning.
For example, "execution", "murder" and a "war" are classified as completely, fundamentally different actions, even though they're empirically the same. Murderers are seen as bad and executing them (usually) takes a long time and lots of trials. But nobody cares if the same "trial" in Iraq lasts a fraction of a second. Murderers are scorned and punished, soldiers are celebrated and glorified (talking Murica here). Even if some students with marginally above average IQ can make the empirical comparison in the case of war, they fail to do so in a few dozen other artificial categories that are an equal nonsense. Thanks Darwin for the Flynn effect. Flynn effect and its higher IQ makes it possible to figure out some of these things on our own - or at least feel awkward about them, so that when someone says it straight, we immediately see it's right.
The other verbal coke and mentos combinations are for example taxation and theft, assault and spanking, divine revelation and schizophrenia, or democracy and mob rule. Not everyone subscribes to all of them, but we should subscribe to none.

Public education is something like the Soviet production of sewing machines - people down there in the factory learn separately to put the part A and part B together and only the supervisors from upper walkways see, that at the end of the line, it's machineguns coming out.


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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-07-2014, 02:18 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 01:49 PM)Luminon Wrote:  No! You fuckin' read a book. What about some Michel Foucault?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_and_Punish
In this book you will learn that modern institutions of education, justice and security are not scientifically designed to work, but they're just random hand-me-downs from the past, ideas slapped together like the stone soup.
In the previous post I have focused on education as a "total institution", also Foucault's concept. People can not be educated in a total institution and then somehow go and build a free society. That's just absurd. However, one thing I'd add to that, families are total institutions too. If there is no special effort to raise children non-violently and voluntarily, making schools more free will not help critical thinking all that much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_institution

That's blitheringly incoherent.

And has nothing to do whatsoever with the nonsense I called you on, which is to say, Maria Teresa did not invent education.

(24-07-2014 01:49 PM)Luminon Wrote:  And screw you for implying that I don't read books.

Turnabout's only fair play, friendo.

How many times have you slandered and insulted me? Dozens?

(24-07-2014 01:49 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I think I study more and from more independent sources to gain more universal insight than you, by far. I am so ahead of you in general understanding of social processes, that you can not imagine how I'd arrive at it and so you assume that I must be pulling things out of my ass.

Maria Teresa did not invent education. You absolutely pulled that from your ass.

It's all well and good for you to claim to be well-read. It's rather belied by your constant falsehoods and misunderstandings.

(24-07-2014 01:49 PM)Luminon Wrote:  The most you had read about society was probably how Bonobo chimps trade sex for status. That and Francis Fukuyama's end of history and capitalist democracy lasting forever.

I've given up on attempting to discern coherent thought from your responses, and this is no exception. But just as a side note, I shall point out to you that I in no way endorse Fukuyama, and a sane reading of my posting history here will more than attest as much.

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24-07-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 02:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  And has nothing to do whatsoever with the nonsense I called you on, which is to say, Maria Teresa did not invent education.
Maria Teresa did not invent education. You absolutely pulled that from your ass.
I did not say she invented education. Her contribution to the topic was the invention of nation-wide universal mandatory public education. She did not invent chalk and blackboard, but she did invent a way to whip the nation into the shape and make it talk the same national language.
I just presumed I did not have to spell that out for you, where I come from it's common knowledge. We both know ancient Athens had education too...

(24-07-2014 02:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Turnabout's only fair play, friendo.

How many times have you slandered and insulted me? Dozens?
I don't think I ever started insulting you, I think I keep the score far behind yours. I think it started when you chimed in with your criticism that was insulting, because it was saying I am a bullshitter. I don't think you count that as an insult, because people just shouldn't say bullshit.
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