Poll: What's the biggest problem facing the United States today?
Religion
Lack of Education
Reliance on Figureheads instead of critical thinking
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What the hell is wrong with the United States?
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24-07-2014, 02:36 PM
Re: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
I'm pretty sure I see the problem is people who overly assertively proclaim their answer is right and ignore the honest hinges of others skepticism.

So probably critical thinking.

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24-07-2014, 03:00 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2014 07:33 PM by cjlr.)
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 02:32 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 02:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  And has nothing to do whatsoever with the nonsense I called you on, which is to say, Maria Teresa did not invent education.
Maria Teresa did not invent education. You absolutely pulled that from your ass.
I did not say she invented education. Her contribution to the topic was the invention of nation-wide universal mandatory public education. She did not invent chalk and blackboard, but she did invent a way to whip the nation into the shape and make it talk the same national language.
I just presumed I did not have to spell that out for you, where I come from it's common knowledge. We both know ancient Athens had education too...

I know perfectly well what you meant. The small problem with that is that it's still not true. At all.

Look. We both know you just copied that factoid from some ideological screed. It isn't true. Deal with it. And maybe look things up for yourself some times.

That's without touching the whole "DEM GUMMINT BRAINWASHIN OUR CHILDRENS" angle. Which is also insane.

(24-07-2014 02:32 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I don't think I ever started insulting you, I think I keep the score far behind yours. I think it started when you chimed in with your criticism that was insulting, because it was saying I am a bullshitter. I don't think you count that as an insult, because people just shouldn't say bullshit.

For a long time I only called you wrong. Because you so frequently are. If you choose to perceive being corrected when wrong as being insulted, that's your problem. Tough shit.

No, I've simply gotten tired of the endless personal insults accompanying everything your latter-day self writes. It seems every possible interlocutor is unfailingly too stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic to understand your Majestic Grandiloquent Self.

edited for typo

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24-07-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
I feel like lack of education and religion can go together. We're already behind in education; states like Mississippi and my home state of Nevada continue to show wretched numbers in student test scores, critical thinking applications, and overall graduation rates. As far as religion is concerned, too many people vote and side with politicians and figureheads based on whether or not they believe in god. It irritates me that so many people in this country are hung up on this "Christian Nation" nonsense. We need to break away from religion and start doing a better job educating students and preparing them for the real world, not preparing them for an afterlife as so many families and religious schools do.

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24-07-2014, 08:24 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2014 08:30 PM by Luminon.)
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I know perfectly well what you meant. The small problem with that is that it's still not true. At all.

Look. We both know you just copied that factoid from some ideological screed. It isn't true. Deal with it. And maybe look things up for yourself some times.

That's without touching the whole "DEM GUMMINT BRAINWASHIN OUR CHILDRENS" angle. Which is also insane.
Nah. By my definition of universal compulsory public education, only Friedrich II is relevant. I do not care what Luther merely advocated but did not universally achieve. Although it might be relevant for 'Murican immigrants Consider So it's even worse, American education is Protestant style brainwashing.

And yes, it is brainwashing, whether church schools or government schools. You haven't refuted that at all. "Insane" is not an argument and you should have touched that, instead of historical excursions.

(24-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  For a long time I only called you wrong. Because you so frequently are. If you choose to perceive being corrected when wrong as being insulted, that's your problem. Tough shit.

No, I've simply gotten tired of the endless personal insults accompanying everything your latter-day self writes. It seems every possible interlocutor is unfailingly too stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic to understand your Majestic Grandiloquent Self.
Hey. I just saw you'd rather engage in nitpickery rather than deal with the actual argument, which is, that government compulsory schools with centrally designed content is the best way to promote critical thinking - said no scientist EVER.

Please note, that I did not say about anyone specific (except Obama and Bush) that he is stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic (hey, ignorance should not be an insult!). I care about the topic of social importance. I see nitpicking as a threat to the topic, perhaps even defense mechanism. Why defense? Because for some reason my conduct gives people feeling that they are stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic, which was never my intention.
But obviously, I can't go around criticizing the education, media and society and yet claim that people are wise/educated/critical/honest/sane. Only sane culture can produce sane people. But when I say that outright, it is seen as insult. When I criticize merely the institutions, not the people, though it is basically the same thing, then I am still felt as arrogant by you and others. Rightly so, people can put two and two together, they know at some deep level it is really about them and they rise to the defense of institutions.

Consider Maybe I keep forgetting one thing - everyone here has much more to lose than me. If anybody else thought the things I think, they would lose their relationships, families, friends, maybe jobs, who knows. That's what I need to get into my head, people have a life or call it a life and they want to keep it. I'm sorry, that's my fault. It's their majority standard, I was supposed to notice that. Shit, that complicates things. How do I find people who have nothing to lose?
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24-07-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Nah. By my definition of universal compulsory public education, only Friedrich II is relevant...

Which must be why you cited Maria Teresa.
Hobo

Read a book.

Either you can't be bothered checking simple facts (you get things wrong constantly) or you just don't give a shit when the factoids support your ideological presuppositions. Either one would be pitiable.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I do not care what Luther merely advocated but did not universally achieve. Although it might be relevant for 'Murican immigrants Consider So it's even worse, American education is Protestant style brainwashing.

Conveniently ignoring that Scotland's pioneering public education led to it being one of the most vibrant societies on the planet, economically, scientifically, and philosophically.

But I'm sure there's no correlation.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  And yes, it is brainwashing, whether church schools or government schools. You haven't refuted that at all. "Insane" is not an argument and you are neither psychologist nor philosopher to be allowed to use that word.

ERMAGERD DEM GUMMINTS BRAINWASHEN MUH CHILLENS TROLOLOLOLOL

It is batshit. Don't like hearing it? Tough shit to you. You've degenerated into a deranged crackpot. So be it.

I needn't refute that which is merely declaimed by a madman. To refute is to engage with; that requires substance. You have presented none.

What's next? Fucking reptiloids?

By all means, continue to vacuously assert whatever lunatic True Believer™ mantras you like. It occasionally rises to the level of entertaining.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Hey. I just saw you'd rather engage in nitpickery rather than deal with the actual argument, which is, that government compulsory schools with centrally designed content is the best way to promote critical thinking - said no scientist EVER.

You don't understand science. You don't understand scientists. You don't understand scientific methods. Do you know why we have compulsory schooling? Because ignorance is manifestly harmful.

Oh, and define "central". You can't. Aspects of education policy vary at all possible levels in all possible jurisdictions. But why let facts get in the way of a good screed?

Give me a fucking break. Here. Ontario's education policy. Notice how they emphasise critical thinking. Feel free to consult international rankings to see how we fall out. Hint: it's near the top.

I can confidently assert that your fatuous vomit of a response will be something along the lines of "well but THE MAN just SAYS that, see, 'cause I r so smrt n u r sheeple TROLOLOLOLOL and IT R CONSPIRCY TROLOLOLOLOL".

And I guess that's an option; you're as ever free to double down on conspiratorial masturbation. But I'd not hold out any hope of anyone finding it in the slightest bit compelling.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Please note, that I did not say about anyone that he is stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic.

You say that all the time. Are you so perverse as to deny it?

Your psychobabble directed towards me, personally, was one of the most deranged things I've ever read.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I care about the topic of social importance. I see nitpicking as a threat to the topic, perhaps even defense mechanism. Why defense? Because for some reason my conduct gives people feeling that they are stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic, which was never my intention.

Since you're utterly without self-awareness I'll take any mention of "projection" from the likes of you with about a mountain's worth of salt.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  But obviously, I can't go around criticizing the education, media and society and yet claim that people are wise/educated/critical/honest/sane.

So by what you just stated your intention was not to call people stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic/whatever; here you're instead strongly implying that they are.

Stay classy, True Believer™.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Only sane culture can produce sane people. But when I say that outright, it is seen as insult. When I criticize merely the institutions, not the people, though it is basically the same thing, then I am still felt as arrogant by you and others. Rightly so, people can put two and two together, they know at some deep level it is really about them and they rise to the defense of institutions.

Bzzt. Psychobabble is inadmissible. Thanks for playing.

(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Consider Maybe I keep forgetting one thing - everyone here has much more to lose than me. If anybody else thought the things I think, they would lose their relationships, families, friends, maybe jobs, who knows. That's what I need to get into my head, people have a life or call it a life and they want to keep it. I'm sorry, that's my fault. It's their majority standard, I was supposed to notice that. Shit, that complicates things. How do I find people who have nothing to lose?

Check under the nearest bridge; that's usually where trolls congregate.

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24-07-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
Hobo is not an argument Drinking Beverage
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24-07-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 09:04 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Hobo is not an argument Drinking Beverage

That's why you should probably stop making it.

I'm only here to help.

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25-07-2014, 03:12 AM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I know perfectly well what you meant. The small problem with that is that it's still not true. At all.

Look. We both know you just copied that factoid from some ideological screed. It isn't true. Deal with it. And maybe look things up for yourself some times.

That's without touching the whole "DEM GUMMINT BRAINWASHIN OUR CHILDRENS" angle. Which is also insane.
Nah. By my definition of universal compulsory public education, only Friedrich II is relevant. I do not care what Luther merely advocated but did not universally achieve. Although it might be relevant for 'Murican immigrants Consider So it's even worse, American education is Protestant style brainwashing.

And yes, it is brainwashing, whether church schools or government schools. You haven't refuted that at all. "Insane" is not an argument and you should have touched that, instead of historical excursions.

(24-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  For a long time I only called you wrong. Because you so frequently are. If you choose to perceive being corrected when wrong as being insulted, that's your problem. Tough shit.

No, I've simply gotten tired of the endless personal insults accompanying everything your latter-day self writes. It seems every possible interlocutor is unfailingly too stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic to understand your Majestic Grandiloquent Self.
Hey. I just saw you'd rather engage in nitpickery rather than deal with the actual argument, which is, that government compulsory schools with centrally designed content is the best way to promote critical thinking - said no scientist EVER.

Please note, that I did not say about anyone specific (except Obama and Bush) that he is stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic (hey, ignorance should not be an insult!). I care about the topic of social importance. I see nitpicking as a threat to the topic, perhaps even defense mechanism. Why defense? Because for some reason my conduct gives people feeling that they are stupid/ignorant/deceived/corrupt/neurotic, which was never my intention.
But obviously, I can't go around criticizing the education, media and society and yet claim that people are wise/educated/critical/honest/sane. Only sane culture can produce sane people. But when I say that outright, it is seen as insult. When I criticize merely the institutions, not the people, though it is basically the same thing, then I am still felt as arrogant by you and others. Rightly so, people can put two and two together, they know at some deep level it is really about them and they rise to the defense of institutions.

Consider Maybe I kep forgetting one thing - everyone here has much more to lose than me. If anybody else thought the things I think, they would lose their relatioamilies, friends, maybe jobs, who knows. That's what I need to get into my head, people have a life or call it a life and they want to keep it. I'm sorry, that's my fault. It's their majority standard, I was supposed to notice that. Shit, that complicates things. How do I find people who have nothing to lose?

Wow! You ramble a lot. Your arguments would be easier to digest if you didn't spend three paragraphs making a point that could be written in three sentences. You need to learn brevity. I find your post highly entertaing; reading the thoughts of insane people often is. Just don't try to write a book every time you reply to someone's post. Thanks.
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25-07-2014, 04:52 AM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(25-07-2014 03:12 AM)PKJoe Wrote:  Wow! You ramble a lot. Your arguments would be easier to digest if you didn't spend three paragraphs making a point that could be written in three sentences. You need to learn brevity. I find your post highly entertaing; reading the thoughts of insane people often is. Just don't try to write a book every time you reply to someone's post. Thanks.
Thanks. *googling how to communicate with brevity* (never thought of that)
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25-07-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: What the hell is wrong with the United States?
(24-07-2014 08:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I know perfectly well what you meant. The small problem with that is that it's still not true. At all.

Look. We both know you just copied that factoid from some ideological screed. It isn't true. Deal with it. And maybe look things up for yourself some times.

That's without touching the whole "DEM GUMMINT BRAINWASHIN OUR CHILDRENS" angle. Which is also insane.
Nah. By my definition of universal compulsory public education, only Friedrich II is relevant. I do not care what Luther merely advocated but did not universally achieve. Although it might be relevant for 'Murican immigrants Consider So it's even worse, American education is Protestant style brainwashing.

And yes, it is brainwashing, whether church schools or government schools. You haven't refuted that at all. "Insane" is not an argument and you should have touched that, instead of historical excursions.

Your second-hand 'knowledge' of American education is pathetic. Where do you get your 'facts'?

There are many excellent public schools in the U.S. that actually educate children.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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