What to do when you step on a landmine?
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08-09-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
I'm very sorry that your wife has turned out to be such a wackaloon. Stuff like this is why I think religion is the most vile construct ever to have come from the mind of Man.

(08-09-2015 12:22 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I wish I had good advice for you. I know what I'd do, which is tell my parents but explain that our love is the same regardless, and then explain to my wife that they're my children too and silencing me in effect takes me out of their life. But then, I will take ricks when the stakes are high, and so I don't advise that upon anyone else, including you, because you know the situation and I don't.

That says it better than I could.

(08-09-2015 06:53 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Oh by the way just so you have the right facts we don't come from primates exactly. We share a common ancestor with them.

If we're talking about getting facts right, we ARE primates. We share common ancestors with everything that has DNA, including apes, squirrels, and mushrooms.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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08-09-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
Insist on a respectful and calm discussion.

This is a very emotionally charged topic, no good can come from a high volume, out of control yelling match.

If your wife wishes to discuss this it has to be on an adult level, there are to be no threats or ultimatums...or else!

Good luck.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-09-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
(08-09-2015 08:45 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  I'm very sorry that your wife has turned out to be such a wackaloon. Stuff like this is why I think religion is the most vile construct ever to have come from the mind of Man.

(08-09-2015 12:22 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I wish I had good advice for you. I know what I'd do, which is tell my parents but explain that our love is the same regardless, and then explain to my wife that they're my children too and silencing me in effect takes me out of their life. But then, I will take ricks when the stakes are high, and so I don't advise that upon anyone else, including you, because you know the situation and I don't.

That says it better than I could.

(08-09-2015 06:53 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Oh by the way just so you have the right facts we don't come from primates exactly. We share a common ancestor with them.

If we're talking about getting facts right, we ARE primates. We share common ancestors with everything that has DNA, including apes, squirrels, and mushrooms.


Aha I stand corrected. Thank you good sir.
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08-09-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
(08-09-2015 07:15 AM)Dom Wrote:  I wouldn't bring it up with 70 year old parents. You might pull the rug out from under them, and if they have to spend years going through the grieving process many go through when they lose their invisible friend, they will possibly spend the rest of their lives grieving, which is miserable. And you would live to regret that for sure.

And if your wife threatens to out you to your parents, ask her if she wants to be responsible for causing your parents pain. Don't allow her to think that you are ashamed of your lack of belief.
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08-09-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
(08-09-2015 07:15 AM)Dom Wrote:  I wouldn't bring it up with 70 year old parents. You might pull the rug out from under them, and if they have to spend years going through the grieving process many go through when they lose their invisible friend, they will possibly spend the rest of their lives grieving, which is miserable. And you would live to regret that for sure.

So long as she's threatening to tell them anyway, all those effects are still in play, and it gives her an extra lever of control. Not to mention the hurt they might feel hearing it from a third party -- at least if he tells them, he doesn't have an angry wife putting the worst possible spin on it.

That's exactly why if I were in his shoes I would tell them.
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08-09-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
(07-09-2015 09:57 PM)jayc Wrote:  So I stepped on a landmine tonight and there doesn't seem to be away off it without losing a leg.

I was browsing the TTA forums while watching a show with my wife (who was playing a game on her ipad) and the next thing you know we are in an intense and quite frankly threatening conversation. My wife is very upset and actively showing it now that I've joined TTA and a local atheist group.

I'm actually a little shocked at her reaction because I've made it pretty clear on several occasions earlier this year that I no longer believe, but she always shouts me out before we can have any real discussion - frustrating but I've tried to be accommodating and understanding. I think a good deal of this anger is because of the way I answered my children's question last week about where people come from - the first people. I naively (and with out thinking) indicated that Science says we come from primates - a well supported fact. My wife is still Christian, though hardly practicing as far as I can see, and I came out this year to myself and her though neither of have been to church for a number of years.

This is my first real experience with the flak I hear one can take for being an atheist and it lived up to the full explosive experience I've heard about. I was told I was being stupid, and how could I have this crazy view given my growing up United Pentecostal. She threatened to tell my mom about my views if I don't smarten up - she thinks I owe it to my mom, but I have clearly indicate I wish to consider the wisdom of this. She wants my parents or my cousin (Pastor) to make me reconsider my position. She effectively threatened divorce (all though when I asked her to clarify that position she backed away from it a bit) if I don't keep my views to myself in front of the children - she wants them to be raised Christian. This lead me to try to defend my position from a logical position which all but resulted in effectively fingers in ears and repeated statements that I'm crazy, I over think, how could I change and special shock at believing man comes from apes

While I got a little passionate about defending my views I think I held a pretty decent calm demeanor in the face of being told I'm the stupid, crazy, unbelievable one for "not" believing in God. I'm just chewing on the big thick slice-o-irony and its sticking in my craw. She's a set in her views person on a good day on any topic you choose, so there was no real chance for a reasonable discussion in something so rooted as God belief. I think the best I can hope is try and aim for peaceful existence for the sake of our kids - but I'm beginning to think that a slim hope at best.

I tried suggesting we each peaceably represent our own views to our kids as I am not comfortable with being a silent parent in raising my kids. In the long run I think the inequality and restriction it places on me is intolerable. But for the short term I will be more diligent in keeping to benign topics.

Now I must contemplate a discussion with my parents (both practicing United Pentecostals). The ensuing discussion seems pointless - it will lead to debate with one of two outcomes. them not listening at all to reason - fingers in ears) and we limp through whatever relationship survives, or perhaps worse I shatter their faith in the process of defending my reasoning. I say worse because they are nearing 70 and I have no wish to rob them of any comfort they might gain given the few years they have left. They know we left the UPC and we don't go to church any more, but they still assume I believe in God. We don't talk too much about God directly.

Well that's it for tonight. I'm still kind of dazed by all this.

~Jay

Jay,
There are several on here, including me, that were in or are in your position. I was also raised Pentecostal (Christ Gospel Church) from about 0-26 yrs old when I left but joined a less flamboyant charasmatic church upon marrying my wife. To this day I still attend even though I don't believe. But I do so to support her and it's a compromise that I'm willing to make. My wife is still a very strong believer and very much wants to raise the kids Christian. She is heart broken about my apostasy and so is the rest of my family. Some have approached me and I have rightly stated my position. However, I have done so keeping several factors in mind:

1.) Mirror the the actions you want to see in the person you are in discussion with. This is simple psychology. Always speak calmly and don't allow emotion to take over your side of the conversation. This serves several purposes...it shows you are in control. It also allows you to stay rational as studies show we become more irrational in our decisions and what we say the more emotionally involved we are.

2.) Don't impose your views on them. I have learned this over the past several years. I frame discussions like.....

"this is why I have come to see things the way I have..."
"These are the types of questions I had..."
"Here are the typical answers I found...but they just didn't seem to add up to me"

If you couple this with the Socratic method of asking questions sometimes it helps people make the connection in their mind. I have led discussions where I just spout my reasoning and people don't get it but if I lead them with questions, it gives them a greater probability of connecting the dots.

3.) There is compromise if you want to keep your marriage in tact. This is a serious discussion that you must have. In my situation, I want my marriage to live, so I was willing to not interfere with my wife teaching our kids christianity. However, I also heap a lot of science and logic on them which I hope will keep them intellectually open. My wife doesn't disapprove of this fortunately. I also answer questions that they have very openly.

Ex: What happens when we die?
Answer: Well no one knows. Different people believe different things but on this side of death, all we know is that we don't have verifiable evidence that people come back or transform into a new identity. So, all we can conclude at best is that once we are dead, we are dead, only the memories of us in others' minds lives on.

4.) Realize that coming from a Pentecostal background the odds of convincing anyone that your new found views are correct are very much against you. Pentecostals are some of the most hard core fudnamentalists inside Christianity.

Finally, you can vent here. You can find a community of people who can identify with you. Many people have different degrees of viewpoints which also helps round out how well you identify with answers that you are given. I went through a stage of tremendous anger because of my fundamentalist indoctrination once I came to the conclusion that it wasn't true. However, I have cooled off and come to understand that the people who indoctrinated me only did so because they sincerely believed what they were giving me was the truth. They were doing what they thought was best. When you look at it that way you will be less quick to call them "stupid", "dumb-asses", "morons" or whatever else may come to mind. It's important to separate the belief from the person.

Best wishes to you!

**Crickets** -- God
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08-09-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
Stay still. Don't shift your weight. Don't move.

#sigh
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08-09-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
(07-09-2015 09:57 PM)jayc Wrote:  So I stepped on a landmine tonight and there doesn't seem to be away off it without losing a leg.

I was browsing the TTA forums while watching a show with my wife (who was playing a game on her ipad) and the next thing you know we are in an intense and quite frankly threatening conversation. My wife is very upset and actively showing it now that I've joined TTA and a local atheist group.

I'm actually a little shocked at her reaction because I've made it pretty clear on several occasions earlier this year that I no longer believe, but she always shouts me out before we can have any real discussion - frustrating but I've tried to be accommodating and understanding. I think a good deal of this anger is because of the way I answered my children's question last week about where people come from - the first people. I naively (and with out thinking) indicated that Science says we come from primates - a well supported fact. My wife is still Christian, though hardly practicing as far as I can see, and I came out this year to myself and her though neither of have been to church for a number of years.

This is my first real experience with the flak I hear one can take for being an atheist and it lived up to the full explosive experience I've heard about. I was told I was being stupid, and how could I have this crazy view given my growing up United Pentecostal. She threatened to tell my mom about my views if I don't smarten up - she thinks I owe it to my mom, but I have clearly indicate I wish to consider the wisdom of this. She wants my parents or my cousin (Pastor) to make me reconsider my position. She effectively threatened divorce (all though when I asked her to clarify that position she backed away from it a bit) if I don't keep my views to myself in front of the children - she wants them to be raised Christian. This lead me to try to defend my position from a logical position which all but resulted in effectively fingers in ears and repeated statements that I'm crazy, I over think, how could I change and special shock at believing man comes from apes

While I got a little passionate about defending my views I think I held a pretty decent calm demeanor in the face of being told I'm the stupid, crazy, unbelievable one for "not" believing in God. I'm just chewing on the big thick slice-o-irony and its sticking in my craw. She's a set in her views person on a good day on any topic you choose, so there was no real chance for a reasonable discussion in something so rooted as God belief. I think the best I can hope is try and aim for peaceful existence for the sake of our kids - but I'm beginning to think that a slim hope at best.

I tried suggesting we each peaceably represent our own views to our kids as I am not comfortable with being a silent parent in raising my kids. In the long run I think the inequality and restriction it places on me is intolerable. But for the short term I will be more diligent in keeping to benign topics.

Now I must contemplate a discussion with my parents (both practicing United Pentecostals). The ensuing discussion seems pointless - it will lead to debate with one of two outcomes. them not listening at all to reason - fingers in ears) and we limp through whatever relationship survives, or perhaps worse I shatter their faith in the process of defending my reasoning. I say worse because they are nearing 70 and I have no wish to rob them of any comfort they might gain given the few years they have left. They know we left the UPC and we don't go to church any more, but they still assume I believe in God. We don't talk too much about God directly.

Well that's it for tonight. I'm still kind of dazed by all this.

~Jay

The best option in your situation with your parents is to avoid the subject, and if they bring it up, tell them directly that it is not a subject you are willing to discuss. Tell them you respect their right to believe as they do without saying anything to the effect of "So please also respect my right to not believe."

Just simply do not bring up or encourage any discussions with them regarding your lack of belief. That will keep the peace with them.

As far as your wife is concerned, try to avoid the subject also, but remain respectful of her right to believe. The best way to deal with that situation is to allow your actions to speak louder than any words you could ever say. Simply love your wife, and show it. Be kind, respectful, and understanding so that she can see that you do indeed possess a high moral standard without the need of beliefs or religion of any kind.

My wife is a very moderate believer, and I have no problems with it at all. Despite my atheism, she will love me until the day I die with all of her heart because my actions towards her say more than any words I could ever muster.

In time, your wife will accept you for who you are, and not for who she wants you to be. If you try to become who she wants you to be, then you are living a lie for both of you.

Just be who you are, and stand with your integrity and morals intact. That way, you are being honest with both her and yourself, and honesty is certainly paramount to building greater trust in your relationship.

Be tactful and patient.

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08-09-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: What to do when you step on a landmine?
I'm sorry, nothing is quite as tough as unrest at home. My husband is similar, he believes what he has always been told, regardless of evidence to the contrary. It is important for her to understand this isn't something that happened on a whim, you spent a lot of time thinking and agonizing over your decision to admit to her that you don't believe. It is very difficult for people to swallow because the fantasy of "heaven" and an all knowing, all powerful god is more comforting than reality. Hopefully someone here can help you out. *hugs*
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08-09-2015, 05:28 PM
What to do when you step on a landmine?
I told my wife that if I am going to believe in God that it will be father Odin. My reasoning is that on one hand the bible is very contradictory and on the other hand I don't see any Ice Giants.

She didn't like it but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. If we are going to talk God then prove to me that your God is the real one.
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