What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-12-2011, 09:37 AM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
(06-12-2011 10:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So here's basically what I was taught about the different wars as a child in an American classroom.


World War 2

-Germany was spreading uncontrollably across the world, a great evil unstoppable force. Then America, the sleeping giant, was awoken by Japan's biggest mistake, an attack on Pearl Harbor. So then America pushed Britain out of the way (they weren't doing anything anyways) and raided the beaches of Northern France and dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, swiftly defeating both countries and ending the war that no one else could stop. America is the hero of the world.

-Seriously. I didn't even know about Stalingrad or Russia's stand until I saw Enemy at the Gates when I was like 20. And there was no rational discussion about what might have caused the war (like the Treaty of Versailles), it was just "Nazis were the embodiment of pure evil and America the Pure stopped them."


Vietnam

-America pulled out of its own accord due to activists protesting at home. We didn't lose (America has never lost a war, to think otherwise is crazy and unpatriotic), we allowed the Vietcong to reclaim the land that we had clearly conquered because we realized the error of our ways and wanted to make amends.


Revolutionary War

-I was drinking in Scotland one day and got into a heated debate with a British guy about the Revolutionary War. Apparently his contention was that Britain won the war but allowed us Americans to separate from Britain because of the strain of maintaining things over such a great distance. He claimed that Canada was the part of America that we had already lost before Britain allowed us to keep the rest. I had never even considered once that we lost the war. What are they teaching you over there in Britain?


Civil War

-I'm just curious as to what they teach any of you in the South about the Civil War. The North accepts that the primary reason the south seceded was because Lincoln was about to abolish slavery, effectively bankrupting the cotton plantations; the driving force for the southern economies. Were any of you taught differently?



What were you taught in your country that you know to be one-sided bullsh!t?

WWII - same

We def won the revolutionary war. Unless the half dozen documentaries I've watched on it are completely inaccurate.

Vietnam-same but I understood fairly early that we pulled out because we couldn't win. We didn't really lose, we just went home.

Civil War - basically the same. it's taught as much more of an economic issue though which I imagine it was. the civil war didn't happen because the south hated black people. it happened because the economy of the south stood to collapse.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes germanyt's post
07-12-2011, 10:07 AM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
Basically what germanyt said. Also, we Southerners were taught that the North didn't whoop us as badly as some would think - considering the manpower, training, money, and supplies the North had.

Not entirely sure if this is correct, but I'm pretty sure it is.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
Maybe I'm older than BC so I had less revisionist history?

I was taught:
The US entered WW2 three years after it began because of the isolationist policies that began well before WW1 and were re-instated in 1918. The Treaty of Versailles is why the Nazi party was able to rise to prominence and then hijack the Chancellery and touch off war by expanding into territories they claimed belonged to Germany in the first place. Japan was already fighting WW2 since around 1910 when they began expansionist policies into Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, and China. They stepped up these policies when Germany began diverting Europe's attention. America and other countries placed trade embargoes upon Japan so they couldn't purchase steel to build ships and planes. Japan needed to cripple the US Navy in the Pacific and be rid of the nasty embargo. Someone said previously they didn't think the US had much of a navy. I'm not sure how we compared to other, but something like 20-25 ships were lost in one day...70 years ago today. I think over 300 airplanes were lost and several thousand casualites. Wasn't a good day for Americans, but a good day for Roosevelt's administration because now he could get America into the war against previous public sentiment. America did not win WW2 in Europe, the Allies did. I suppose America did win over Japan since we're the only ones that dropped the bomb, but then we rebuilt that country until they surpassed us in technology and financial stability.

Revolutionary War
Never heard anything but that the colonies won their independence with good old American know-how and of course thanks to the intervention of the French.

Vietnam War
Some of my early memories are of watching scenes of dead troops on black and white tv news at dinner time. In the 70's, we were taught that this is the only war the US ever lost.

Civil War
Fought because of states rights and balance of power in the Federal government. Lincoln was not planning to free the slaves and only did so 2 years after the war started in order to bring more support to the fighting.

This is what I learned in school. I graduated high school in 1893. I'm interested in how the teaching of history has changed in the past 30 or so years.


PS...I decided to leave the typo on the year I graduated from High School. Seems more appropriate that way!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2011, 12:20 PM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
I didn't say that they didn't think the US had a good navy. The US was the only naval power that could threaten them. Japan is protected from all but naval power basically. And most of the bigger navy's were in Europe. The US was the only one that could step in and stop them from taking China. Even with the embargo they were doing great in the war with China. The main issue was that the US was not involved with Germany. Had the US went to the war earlier it's likely that Japan wouldn't have attacked pearl harbor.

I personally think though that it's unfortunate Japan didn't realize the position they were in. The US was caught off gaurd and a full scale assault would've been pretty effective. Germany and Japan were only allies in that they communicated with each other and targeted separate parts. Neither really helped the other that much outside of supplies.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2011, 01:04 PM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
(07-12-2011 12:20 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Germany and Japan were only allies in that they communicated with each other and targeted separate parts. Neither really helped the other that much outside of supplies.


The enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2011, 01:21 PM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
Quote: Erxomai: This is what I learned in school. I graduated high school in 1893.
So the civil war was still fresh in memory and the Vietnam one, prophetic. Yes, i know it's a typo; i found it amusing.
And i'm even older.

The Vietnam war was going like gangbusters when i came out of high-school - i knew quite a few draft-dodgers and a couple of deserters who told a very different story from the official line. There was decent news reporting at the time - the last time! - and that iconic clip of Westmoreland saying "These people don't feel the same way about death as we do." or something assinine along those lines, with a Vietnamese funeral in the background, people crying and wailing, just as they do everywhere when their loved ones are killed.

Korea was hardly mentioned, except by one of my teachers who had been there. He considered it a debacle, and our [Canadians; NATO] intervention completely unnecessary. It came up as one of the contributing causes of the Vietnam fiasco. And both go back to European and American "interests" [imperial ambitions] in the far east. They were never very good at it, but keep on meddling.

About WWII, we did learn of its roots in WWI, and the causes of that war were not painted all black and white either - but the emphasis was more on political alliances than economic interests. Odd omissions: oil was not considered a factor in the entrance of Japan, while industrial raw material figured largely in the actions of Germany. No mention of Kennedy, or Mosley; very little about long-term middle eastern "interests". Hitler, all bad; Chamberlain, spineless; Stalin, a double-crosser (!!) Churchill, big fat hero; Truman, noble patriot; King, all around good guy. Indians and Australians... Who? Silence about Jewish refugees; silence about Japanese internment camps and property seizure in Canada and the US. Lots and lots of military hardware, strategy and gore; nothing about cock-ups by generals.

About the US civil war, not very much. Slavery issue, very prominent; cotton and economic issues, less so; federalism - political decision to disallow secession - yes, but not why? I still don't know why: seemed like the only sensible thing, and it's going to happen anyway. Not too many details, thank the Ministry of Education.

Far too many details about the revolutionary war. But that was back in Gr 8, so i don't recall most of them. We knew it was more about taxes than freedom, and that natives and French allies played a much bigger part than Hollywood ever showed us. Of course, the Loyalists were the most sympathetic characters, because a lot of them became powerful Canadians, but the rebels were also seen as good guys, until they attacked Canada, and then the British were the good guys. Hard to get the balance right, between our two bosom buddies, but they sure tried.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Peterkin's post
07-12-2011, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2011 02:55 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
(06-12-2011 10:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So here's basically what I was taught about the different wars as a child in an American classroom.

World War 2

-Germany was spreading uncontrollably across the world, a great evil unstoppable force. Then America, the sleeping giant, was awoken by Japan's biggest mistake, an attack on Pearl Harbor. So then America pushed Britain out of the way (they weren't doing anything anyways) and raided the beaches of Northern France and dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, swiftly defeating both countries and ending the war that no one else could stop. America is the hero of the world.

-Seriously. I didn't even know about Stalingrad or Russia's stand until I saw Enemy at the Gates when I was like 20. And there was no rational discussion about what might have caused the war (like the Treaty of Versailles), it was just "Nazis were the embodiment of pure evil and America the Pure stopped them."


Vietnam

-America pulled out of its own accord due to activists protesting at home. We didn't lose (America has never lost a war, to think otherwise is crazy and unpatriotic), we allowed the Vietcong to reclaim the land that we had clearly conquered because we realized the error of our ways and wanted to make amends.


Revolutionary War

-I was drinking in Scotland one day and got into a heated debate with a British guy about the Revolutionary War. Apparently his contention was that Britain won the war but allowed us Americans to separate from Britain because of the strain of maintaining things over such a great distance. He claimed that Canada was the part of America that we had already lost before Britain allowed us to keep the rest. I had never even considered once that we lost the war. What are they teaching you over there in Britain?


Civil War

-I'm just curious as to what they teach any of you in the South about the Civil War. The North accepts that the primary reason the south seceded was because Lincoln was about to abolish slavery, effectively bankrupting the cotton plantations; the driving force for the southern economies. Were any of you taught differently?


What were you taught in your country that you know to be one-sided bullsh!t?


Civil War
They told us that slavery was only one of many reasons, though a large one, revolving around the main issue of state rights.
As far as I can tell that statement seems to be true.

Revolutionary War
Britain definitely lost the war. Not because of the colonies military power, but because of the strain to maintain it. Sometimes simply surviving is winning.

Personally I think Britain could have possibly won the war through attrition, but with a very hostile France just next door, it could have likely been a terrible mistake. And if war with France had broken out, they would have certainly lost the colonies anyways, if not that the war as well.

Vietnam
We lost. There are many ways to win a war.
If you were told the US has never lost a war, then you were feed nationalism BS.

Personally, I spit on the idea of patriotism.

World War 2
The Allies won the war, not the US. We certainly did not do everything.
And if that was what you were told, you were simply lied to.


I guess I was lucky that my 7th grade teacher actually decided to teach us, rather than feed us patriotic propaganda. On the very first day of class I remember him saying to the tune of "never bring your history books to class, they are crap, and if it were up to me I would toss them out the window". Later, I remember him clearly saying that the idea that the US has never lost a war was total bull shit. And he even said bull shit, which we all thought made him that much cooler.



If you truly want to know about how the Americans are brainwashed militarily just give this a ponder.

When the average American hears about the Holocaust he thinks "those damn communist genocidal maniacs."

When the average Americans hears about the Trail of tears, assuming he even knows what it is, he thinks "the poor Native Americans", as if the Native Americans were being killed off by the elements or something. They seem to totally forget about the US govt that was committing mass genocide on a scale never before witnessed before or since.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mysticjbyrd's post
07-12-2011, 08:38 PM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
And remember you don't have to use the examples I used. Feel free to use wars from your respective countries. Anyone from Israel or Palestine? What do they teach you about Israelis or Palestinians?

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Buddy Christ's post
07-12-2011, 08:50 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2011 09:15 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
(07-12-2011 12:20 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I didn't say that they didn't think the US had a good navy. The US was the only naval power that could threaten them. Japan is protected from all but naval power basically. And most of the bigger navy's were in Europe. The US was the only one that could step in and stop them from taking China. Even with the embargo they were doing great in the war with China. The main issue was that the US was not involved with Germany. Had the US went to the war earlier it's likely that Japan wouldn't have attacked pearl harbor.

I personally think though that it's unfortunate Japan didn't realize the position they were in. The US was caught off gaurd and a full scale assault would've been pretty effective. Germany and Japan were only allies in that they communicated with each other and targeted separate parts. Neither really helped the other that much outside of supplies.

Ah, my apologies Lilith. I was too lazy to go back and see where I had seen it and I obviously had the idea out of context.

So much good stuff here:
The US didn't step in much with China, which makes me sad. (They did send in the Flying Tigers, who became a bunch of kickass pilots so that's pretty cool).
I have a feeling the world would be different place if the Rape of Nanking and the rest of the country could have been prevented. I suspect a farm boy named Mao Tse-tung wouldn't have had to make the Long March and the rest of history that lead the US to be at tense odds with China.

Have you read Harry Turtledove? A favorite author of mine. If you do the googles on the interwebs, you'll find he's extremely prolific. A lot of his books deal with alternative history. The fun "what if" sort of stuff. What if Lee's orders hadn't been discovered before Gettysburg and the South ended up winning their independence...and then all the World Wars in our real history, begin to happen in this alternate history where the Confederate States essentially follow the same path as the Nazis, only here on the North American Continent. This is all a LOT of background to say he's written a "What if" book on Pearl Harbor? What if the Japanese had sent marines to invade and then hold the islands during the war? Very fun stuff to think about!
(07-12-2011 01:21 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Silence about Jewish refugees; silence about Japanese internment camps and property seizure in Canada and the US.

Pk, this is a nerve for me. I was taught in public school about the Japanese internment camps about the same way I was taught about the flood. Well, yeah it happened and it was an unfortunate time so we just don't really want to take a microscopic look at the details because we won't like what we find there.

I had no idea Canada did this as well.

I know the answer to the question, so it's rhetorical:
Why no camps for the Germans? Why weren't Italian assets seized?


Oh...and why no reparations? Pisses me off.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: What were you taught about wars in your classrooms? Bias for your country.
I was taught history was written by the victors. My last history report in college was a diatribe on the founding fathers being a bunch of founding criminals who no longer felt it necessary to pay the taxes of the crown that sponsored the original expeditions. Must have been alright, I got an A. Wink

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: