What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
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03-09-2017, 08:56 AM
What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
I am a huge fan of Warhammer 40k and 30k/Horus Heresy.

Also since 40k Theories have been making a video series where he looks at how the different things in the 40k universe might be possible from a scientific point of view.
So naturally my mind wandered towards the Space Marines and Primarchs and how they might be possible.

Now one thing to notice about the Primarchs is that unlike Space Marines, the Primarchs wasn´t born but literally created in a large container from scratch.
They where designed to be "born" as babies and grow to adulthood within a few years.

Now since this is the 40k universe we are talking about a great deal of magic was involved in their creation.
But say we left out the Magic and just concentrated on what is scientifically possible.
How could you create the Primarchs?

One of the Primarchs i want to look at is Sanguinius who basically looked like a 9 ft 6 (so around 2,74 meters tall give or take) human with large white wings.

In the books the wings started as seeds on his back but grew to fully fledged wings which he learned to use, even when wearing power armor though it tires him a great deal doing so.

So lets say you want to create Sanguinius, and have him use the wings and still look human, could it be done with normal biology alone or would we have to start thinking various cybernetic implants capable of growing with the child into adulthood?

Or is Sanguinius one of those things where no matter what we do just remains in the realms of science fiction.
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03-09-2017, 09:13 AM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
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03-09-2017, 09:30 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 09:43 AM by Rockblossom.)
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
Humans find all kinds of ways to fly.

Flying Man

But organic wings? Not unless we can get a whole lot lighter with hollow bones like birds. And our bones are not hollow because bone marrow is where we manufacture blood cells.

Quote:On the other hand, calculations of the ratio between human size and strength reveal that our species will never be able to take flight unaided. As an organism grows, its weight increases at a faster rate than its strength. Thus, an average adult male human would need a wingspan of at least 6.7 meters to fly. This calculation does not even take into account that these wings themselves would be too heavy to function.
http://www.yalescientific.org/2013/03/qa...umans-fly/

Of course, that's in Earth's gravity. Find a place with lower gravity, and you could be in business growing humans with (functional) wings. It would have to be a planet or manmade ship with atmosphere, because no air = nothing for wings to push against. So no flying Moon Men.
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03-09-2017, 09:40 AM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
A being that 'Looks' human but has functional wings?

Yeah, as others have posted, it would take increadable and major changes in the person's/xreatures DNA anad structure.

My thoughts?

You incorporate exotic materials into the structre of the bones. "Carbon nano tube" to increase their over all strength which will thence allow you to make them hollow and pourous (Look up some Youtube videos on the 'Teradactyles and pterrasuars. They were some BIG flyers).

Next, same treatment for muscle and tendon structures. You need higher power to weight to get off the ground.

Then... rebuild the lung/trachea system to allow 'Constant' or 'Flow through' breathing to get enough oxygen passing into the blood stream while allowing CO2 to leave.

Leading to... probably boost the amount and function of the red blood cells as well.. since they are transporting the needed fuel from the lungs to the muscles.

Finally? This being will eat. Read some where at just how energy hungry/intense flying is. Birds sacrifice LOTS of things to be able to fly. Condensed brain mass (The neurons in crows and parrots are packed closer to gether to get more brain for less volume/weight.) their waste system conenctrates everything. Most of what people see as 'Bird poop'? It's not. That's the after effects of them taking a wizz...

Much cheers.

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03-09-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
(03-09-2017 09:30 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  Humans find all kinds of ways to fly.

Flying Man

But organic wings? Not unless we can get a whole lot lighter with hollow bones like birds.

Quote:On the other hand, calculations of the ratio between human size and strength reveal that our species will never be able to take flight unaided. As an organism grows, its weight increases at a faster rate than its strength. Thus, an average adult male human would need a wingspan of at least 6.7 meters to fly. This calculation does not even take into account that these wings themselves would be too heavy to function.
http://www.yalescientific.org/2013/03/qa...umans-fly/

Of course, that's in Earth's gravity. Find a place with lower gravity, and you could be in business growing humans with (functional) wings. It would have to be a planet or manmade ship with atmosphere, because no air = nothing for wings to push against. So no flying Moon Men.

In the history of our planet, there have been enormouse creature capable of self-powered flight. However to get something human sized airborne would require quite inhuman adaptations.

The Quetzalcoatlus (Late Cretaceous, North America) had an estimated 10 meter wingspan and weighed 200~250 kilograms. The thing was a flying killer giraffe.

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03-09-2017, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 09:46 AM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
Heh... put arms on it's chest some whre/how maybe and rebuild it to breath fire and ou have dragons. Heart

Also, interestingly, they are pretty sure the pterrasaurs all had fine 'fur' on all over their bodys.

Bats fly quite well and get quite large (It's Flying Fox mating season here and you can hear their conjugal bliss at night all through the trees. Dodgy ) BUT the reason bats don't fly around during the day? They'd get sunburn on their wing membranes and hence not be able to fly. (No idea if this is true. Blush )

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03-09-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
(03-09-2017 09:43 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Heh... put arms on it's chest some whre/how maybe and rebuild it to breath fire and ou have dragons. Heart

Also, interestingly, they are pretty sure the pterrasaurs all had fine 'fur' on all over their bodys.

Bats fly quite well and get quite large (It's Flying Fox mating season here and you can hear their conjugal bliss at night all through the trees. Dodgy ) BUT the reason bats don't fly around during the day? They'd get sunburn on their wing membranes and hence not be able to fly. (No idea if this is true. Blush )

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I imagine they don't fly during the day because they're nocturnal. They're adapted to operate at night, when they have the most advantages stacked in their favor. So why tempt fate flying during the day, when you might get picked off by a falcon or eagle?

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03-09-2017, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 10:17 AM by Rockblossom.)
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
(03-09-2017 09:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I imagine they don't fly during the day because they're nocturnal. They're adapted to operate at night, when they have the most advantages stacked in their favor. So why tempt fate flying during the day, when you might get picked off by a falcon or eagle?

Ecolocation gives them an advantage at night, but their vision isn't all that good for daylight navigation (compared to birds, their main competition for food). Maybe if they had a bat-friendly optician, we might see bats with eyeglasses flying around during the day. You would probably see them in coffee bars, since they would be losing out on their usual daytime sleep.

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03-09-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
Certain aspects of biophysics do not scale well and flight is one of them. That's why you don't see flying creatures much larger than a vulture. There are larger creatures that can glide but even those are rare.

Body mass increases proportional to the cube of an organism's size. At 9' 6" your first challenge will be to get Sanguinius just to stand upright without crushing his ankles. It'll be even worse once you dress the poor critter in plate armour.

Wing area only increases with the square of size. All of the muscles needed to power those wings and the respiratory and circulatory systems that back those up scale even worse.

You could resort to technological solutions but the wings would have to beat hundreds of times a second, resulting in something that looked like a misbegotten hummingbird. The powerpack would be enormous and I don't even want to think about heat disappation.

All in all, there's a reason that the authors had to resort to magic.

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03-09-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: What would it take to build a human caperble of flying with wings and look human?
I'd just like to be caperble of spelling. Wink

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Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
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