What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
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30-11-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 01:02 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(30-11-2016 12:29 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Who said it had to be an attack directed at military installations? Is there a rule about this or so?
Wouldnt the collateral damage be even higher if not 3000 but all 50000 people in WTC had been killed? Or 40000? Or 30000? or 20000? Or 10000?

Terrorism is for attention sabotage is for results.

Quote:Are you saying that an organisation like Al Quaeda wasnt able to orchestrate a conspiracy involving 20 men flying airliners into skyscrapers?
Have you ever heared about the events involving the kidnapping of B737 "Landshut", the RAF terrorists imprisoned in a high security prison facility in Stuttgart Stammheim and the abduction and killing of Hans Martin Schleyer?

Are you saying that an organisation like the CIA wouldn't be able to orchestrate a similar event? Which one is better equipped to do so?

Quote:Bin Laden, Al Quaeda in general and most of the radical muslim world seem to disagree with you. Are you aware that one of the "strategc" goals of a terrorist is......to create terror? Facepalm

That is also one of the tenets of the strategy of tension.

Quote:How do you generate terror? By attacking well trained well equipped soldiers, or by targeting random untrained unaware people who feel completely safe?
Are you aware that terrorists, like anyone who is outmanned and out-equipped, typically resort to "asymetric warfare"?

I'd be a lot more worried about an organization that could successfully sabotage a military outpost than I would be about an organization that hijacked a few planes. Mainly because I'm not afraid of knives as much as I am random explosions.

(30-11-2016 12:28 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Easy isn't it? Seventy something virgins and a penthouse apartment in Allah's kingdom all expenses paid. This is why I find CWs responses so flawed as to be almost childish he seems to see patterns everywhere even where there are none.

If Muslims and Christians were so sure of their faith, they would not mourn the death of their loved ones.

(30-11-2016 12:55 PM)skyking Wrote:  <So Al-Qaeda wasn't expecting any reprisals for their actions?>
Al Queda is not a country or a target. They are dispersed small groups of terrorists and as such, have several advantages over conventional forces.
<But what is disputed is their dedication to the courses.>
Flying a plane that is already airborne is very easy. The hard work is done.

Try and get on a base. Let me know how that works out.
For a long time now they have employed passive sensors on the perimeter. They are not obvious, nor do they advertise them. The fence keeps the drunks from blundering in but the real security is electronic in nature.

Like back in 2001 long time? I figured they probably had some electronic sensor but didn't know to what extent. Certainly.

Tell me what do you think of the chances are of successfully infiltrating Area 51 with nothing but a camera attached to a camouflaged toy car made to look like a rock? I mean you could just set it into position during the night and wait for the day.

It wouldn't even make it past a run of the mill motion sensor, and that was old technology long before 2001.

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30-11-2016, 02:27 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
And C4 is harder to get your hands on than a commercial airplane.

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30-11-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
When I went through Electronic Security Systems in '99, everything from seismic sensors to humidity sensors were pretty standard. The exact layout of the security system at any given facility is typically as classified as the facility itself, which would make it very difficult to plan around without inside knowledge. Which they didn't have.

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30-11-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(30-11-2016 01:22 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  A terrified population is a result. Ask any terrorist, ask any terrified citizen.

I'm more terrified of the CIA than I am of ISIS.
Dont you get it or are you deliberately dense? I dont have to convince you of anything. You wanted to convince people here of your conspiracy theories. This sounds more like you are the person you want to convince.

(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
Quote:I dont have to convince you of my version, you are here to convince us, right? Im not impressed. Its not about which organisation can do something, but which one actually did. Im my case it demonstrably was the RAF and its supporters (down to Lybia), which supports my point that well coordinated terrorist activities are possible, hereby countering your original claim.

The RAF had to have been back by the soviets, its in the name Red Army Faction.

Soviets and Terrorism

The CIA was the western equivalent of the KGB, and both have notorious reputations. To say that the KGB did something the CIA didn't or vice versa... that'd be a stretch.
Your point is?

(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
Quote:Oh, was that another one of your "evidence"? Im still not impressed/convinced. Your proposition needs to be a bit more than just be kind of plausible or possible. More like "most probable". Your reasoning is far from showing this (imho).
At this point I'm only responding in turn.
No red herrings? No derailing? No new claims? Dont tell me you have run out of *evidence*. This is certainly not the way of convincing me of anything but beleiving you actually dont have much at all to support your propositions.

(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
Quote:Again, nice that you believe in your own rationalisations, but why should everybody else do? My point is at least as valid as yours.
Yep, and no one has to believe what I do, I'd like the to but it's not a necessity.
That does not very much match your thread about how frustrated you are that noone here buys your propositions. Sounds more like you are backpedaling again, because i am not buying your stories at face value. Again: They have to be more than just possible or probable if you want me to believe them.

(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
Quote:And this is evidence for what exactly?
That the 72 virgins is mostly just propaganda.
Mourning the death of your loved ones is evidence that 72 virgins is just propaganda? Laugh out load
Listen to how he happily said that hes going ho heaven and his victims to hell. I wonder what or whom he is expecting in heaven (maybe 72 virgins?). That seems to have been enough reason for him to blow himself up. Who cares if the virgins were part of his motivations? One single reason to blow yourself up is enough.




(30-11-2016 01:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(30-11-2016 01:26 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  You are backpedaling. First it was "attention and no result", now its "little impact on the economy" (the biggest fucking one on this planet by a large margin if i may add). Bush....is a red herring. If you werent such a nice guy id be thinking you are starting to becom disingenuous.
Not a good move to convince others of your version. You should starting to ask yourself if your version is actually true or even plausible.
Are we talking about the 18 trillion dollars in debt? Because I don't think we can blame that one on the terrorists.
You are further trying to derail the conversation, instead of sticking to the topics at hand. One more try of gish-galopping with me and i am done with you for good. I think so far we have demonstrated far enough anyhow why nobody has bought your propositions so far, on TTA or anywhere else.

Too bad, you seem to be such a nice bloke otherwise.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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30-11-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 02:35 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Dont you get it or are you deliberately dense? I dont have to convince you of anything. You wanted to convince people here of your conspiracy theories. This sounds more like you are the person you want to convince.

I wanted to know what would convince people. I have obtained that answer, this thread wasn't for me to prove any conspiracy though people have tried getting me to do so.

Quote:Your point is?

No red herrings? No derailing? No new claims? Dont tell me you have run out of *evidence*. This is certainly not the way of convincing me of anything but beleiving you actually dont have much at all to support your propositions.

The point is, you provided something stating that terrorists have done these things before (hijackings) and I provided counter evidence showing that this was part of the cold war and that the terrorists were backed by the soviets. Just like Al Qaeda was originally backed by the CIA.

You said
Quote:Its not about which organisation can do something, but which one actually did.

And I was proving to you that intelligence agencies had done this before. You said something, and I gave something to contradict what you said.

Quote:That does not very much match your thread about how frustrated you are that noone here buys your propositions. Sounds more like you are backpedaling again, because i am not buying your stories at face value. Again: They have to be more than just possible or probable if you want me to believe them.

And that was before I came to the that further attempts of such would be futile.

Quote:Mourning the death of your loved ones is evidence that 72 virgins is just propaganda? Laugh out load
Listen to how he happily said that hes going ho heaven and his victims to hell. I wonder what or whom he is expecting in heaven (maybe 72 virgins?). That seems to have been enough reason for him to blow himself up. Who cares if the virgins were part of his motivations? One single reason to blow yourself up is enough.



The man was married, it would have been no easy decision for him to leave his wife behind. He was also a doctor, he had a pretty good life ahead of him, so what does his wife say about the matter.

"He was very affected by the occupation of "Islamic lands" by United States"

That was his motivation, that was the motivation of many so called 'terrorists' in Iraq and Afghanistan and Palestine. The occupation of their lands, the murder of their family and friends or as we call them 'casualties of war'. Dare I say if China invaded the United States, and your family in an Chinese air strike, and you were the only one left alive. What would you do?

Now granted this man is from Turkey/Jordan and his kinsmen were in no immediate threat, but I am also talking of others. For this man religion and cultural bonds tied him to the war more deeply than it does us.

Quote:You are further trying to derail the conversation, instead of sticking to the topics at hand. One more try of gish-galopping with me and i am done with you for good. I think so far we have demonstrated far enough anyhow why nobody has bought your propositions so far, on TTA or anywhere else.

Too bad, you seem to be such a nice bloke otherwise.

I have convinced myself, that it is impossible to convince anyone of anything. Therefore to me, I can not convince you, and you probably could not convince me. I believe the term here is to agree to disagree.
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30-11-2016, 11:06 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 04:07 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I wanted to know what would convince people. I have obtained that answer, this thread wasn't for me to prove any conspiracy though people have tried getting me to do so.

You said "through the many long years of being a conspiracy theorist, I have made many attempts to try and convince others that a conspiracy took place...".

You then asked what would convince me (us) of the veracity of any of your so-far undivulged conspiracy theories. But... you refuse to accept my (our) answers, that is, empirical evidence, which is the ONLY viable evidence. Apparently, you expect us to simply take your word for it and/or them.

—Your expectations are ridiculous.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-12-2016, 01:37 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 04:07 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(30-11-2016 02:35 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Dont you get it or are you deliberately dense? I dont have to convince you of anything. You wanted to convince people here of your conspiracy theories. This sounds more like you are the person you want to convince.

I wanted to know what would convince people. I have obtained that answer, this thread wasn't for me to prove any conspiracy though people have tried getting me to do so.

The answer that you obtained, was it by any chance the assumption that I suspect you started with? That NOTHING would ever change our minds because we are CLOSE MINDED STUBBORN DICKS? Because the answers that you were given were sometimes detailed but all came down to "evidence".

You then claimed that you had, in the past, presented evidence for conspiracy theories but it was rejected. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS EVIDENCE!!!!! But when asked for an example - a single example - of your evidence, you ran away.

You got nothing.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-12-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 11:49 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Hold on a minute while I find a good eye rolling gif.

May I suggest: [Image: 757.gif]
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03-12-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?







Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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04-12-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(03-12-2016 06:20 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  






You should feel ashamed of yourself for watching such filth! Angry
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