What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
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27-11-2016, 07:48 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
Actual evidence that logically connects to the conspiracy theory conclusion. (You don't get to dictate how we utilize information or under what circumstances we will accept something as plausible because you peddle irrational conspiracy theories that no one in their right mind would accept)

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27-11-2016, 07:56 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm not choosing a specific conspiracy theory no, the problem does not lie in the one it lays in the entire concept. What is it about conspiracy theories that seem to baffle so many minds?
What kind of *concept*?
What makes you so fascinated with them? What makes you so desperate to believe them? Im not baffled by conspiracies, i am usually baffled by the level of ignorance lack of evidence with which they are presented as well as the lack of qualification of the presenters.

(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Hours upon hours of formulating and procuring the necessary evidence to supply at least a reasonable doubt and no, not happening, never did.
Well, you just have fueled one of my suspicions. "Formulating evidence" as in "making shit up" or as in "my (unqualified) opinion about some facts/factoids"? Sorry for being so direct, but please explain more in detail.
"...supply at least a reasonable doubt"? No, sorry, your job is not to make people doubt what they think they already know is ture, its to provide good reasons for why to believe what you present.

(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  For Illuminati, I believe that in and of itself is a conspiracy, what better way to make those who do believe in the conspiracy you've committed stop from overthrowing you? Make them lose hope, make them feel small, make them feel powerless.
And by not buying this you feel bigger and more powerful? It has already been explained that many conspiracy theorists are engaged in this activity exactly for these reasons. Thats why i was asking for your needs/desires.

(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Its like how I believe the government actively tries to make conspiracies seem more dumb than they actually are, by making ludicrous and outrageous conspiracy theories that some people are going to fall pray to and then saying all conspiracy theorists are like that.
Emphaisis mine, and i bet you expected this. How.do.you.know? Why do you believe this? This is a meta conspiracy theory, a conspiracy theory about conspiracies. Makes your claims not more believeable in the least. Dodgy

(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  In a lot of ways conspiracy theories are like religion. You have your very different denominations, the atheists, the protestants vs the catholics, and then you have westerboro. People like to think that all conspiracy theorists are like westboro. When in actuality, most conspiracy theorists are more like atheists, because they don't believe the official version and can separate fact from fiction relatively easily.
WTF? You are comparing yourself to atheists/sceptics? You are comparing the *official version* of events with religion? Are you trying to jus tproclaim yourself to be "right" and everything else to be "religion"? Thats really, really desperate. You have nothing in common with sceptics who happen to be atheists around here, nothing! Are you actually aware of this? Actually you are one of the denominations in yoour example, and -funny enough, because it matches religion so well- the ones you despise most are the ones with a mindset closest to yours (religion).

If your theory and methodology has no own merit, it doesnt make you look particularly clever by just trying to associate yourself by proclamation with a group that has both. Please remember: Just because you dont believe in the *official* version of events, doesnt make your theores valid. You know what would make them valid, and what would make a sceptic/atheist acceptit, right? It begins with "E".

(27-11-2016 06:31 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  There is an overwhelming amount of evidence for at least two BIG conspiracies. What they are who knows, not gonna let this thread be another one of my failures, especially since it has been tried and tested that the evidence does not work.
Overwhelming? Then it shouldnt be so hard for you to convince us, right? If not, then either a whole forum of sceptics is wrong.....or just a single person. What is your bet?
Any why bold the word "big". I dont care if its a big or a big conspiracy. What i care about starts with an "E".

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27-11-2016, 08:02 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 07:48 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Actual evidence that logically connects to the conspiracy theory conclusion. (You don't get to dictate how we utilize information or under what circumstances we will accept something as plausible because you peddle irrational conspiracy theories that no one in their right mind would accept)

Lots of people there not in their right mind. In fact the people who are convinced that Al-Qaeda was responsible are actually in the minority.

[Image: 911worldopinionpoll_Sep2008_pie.png]

Deesse I'll get back to you later on, i'm at work right now, and all the free time I have left is 8 minutes, there's no way in heaven I'm going to be able to formulate a proper response to you in 8 minutes. So I ask that you be patient.
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27-11-2016, 08:09 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 08:02 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 07:48 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Actual evidence that logically connects to the conspiracy theory conclusion. (You don't get to dictate how we utilize information or under what circumstances we will accept something as plausible because you peddle irrational conspiracy theories that no one in their right mind would accept)

Lots of people there not in their right mind. In fact the people who are convinced that Al-Qaeda was responsible are actually in the minority.

[Image: 911worldopinionpoll_Sep2008_pie.png]

Deesse I'll get back to you later on, i'm at work right now, and all the free time I have left is 8 minutes, there's no way in heaven I'm going to be able to formulate a proper response to you in 8 minutes. So I ask that you be patient.

What exactly do you think a poll of public opinion from 2008 is evidence of? And why would I care about it?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-11-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 08:09 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 08:02 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Lots of people there not in their right mind. In fact the people who are convinced that Al-Qaeda was responsible are actually in the minority.

[Image: 911worldopinionpoll_Sep2008_pie.png]

Deesse I'll get back to you later on, i'm at work right now, and all the free time I have left is 8 minutes, there's no way in heaven I'm going to be able to formulate a proper response to you in 8 minutes. So I ask that you be patient.

What exactly do you think a poll of public opinion from 2008 is evidence of? And why would I care about it?

I don't know, just didn't so kindly to you calling half the worlds population not in their right mind.
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27-11-2016, 08:12 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 08:10 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 08:09 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What exactly do you think a poll of public opinion from 2008 is evidence of? And why would I care about it?

I don't know, just didn't so kindly to you calling half the worlds population not in their right mind.

I don't care if you don't take kindly to the facts. There are a lot of stupid and gullible people out there.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-11-2016, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2016 09:33 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 08:02 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Deesse I'll get back to you later on, i'm at work right now, and all the free time I have left is 8 minutes, there's no way in heaven I'm going to be able to formulate a proper response to you in 8 minutes. So I ask that you be patient.

No problem, take your time. Big Grin
But please.....statistics.....that wont cut it. Thats exactly what i was talking about. Dont try to make us doubt what we currently think to be true. Convince us with (good) arguments for your theory.

I dont care in the end either what a majority of other people think. 1k years ago, most people believed the earth was flat.

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27-11-2016, 08:22 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 08:19 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 08:02 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Deesse I'll get back to you later on, i'm at work right now, and all the free time I have left is 8 minutes, there's no way in heaven I'm going to be able to formulate a proper response to you in 8 minutes. So I ask that you be patient.

No problem, take your time. Big Grin
But please.....statistics.....that wont cut it. Thats exactly what i wa stalking about. Dont try to make us doubt what we currently think to be true. Convince us with (good) arguments for your theory.

I dont care in the end either what a majority of other people think. 1k years ago, most people believed the earth was flat.

Is that what gas-lighting is? You try and convince people you're right by using BS to try and convince them their opinions are wrong? Consider

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27-11-2016, 08:51 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2016 08:56 AM by Velvet.)
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
Well Celestial, for a start you could try to not assume that you are right, that alone would give you a boost to your credibility, I`m way more inclined to be persuaded by someone who wants to know my opinion than by anyone who claims that is able to show me truth, their truth, which kind of implies that I must be stupid, since you are able to see it so clearly, while I'm completely blind to it.

Usually when in your position, aside from doing what Deesse is saying (he said like 90% of what I would say), I will try to establish common ground, finding something that both you and I believe, or we both want (as DLJ pointed, desire), and work upside down from that...

In an example, when debating with religious people I usually ask if they want to know the truth, whatever it might be, supposing it wouldn't be that either I, or him is right, we being both wrong, would he be interested in knowing the truth? After establishing that we both are interested in knowing the truth, the talk becomes about the method we would use to get there, and why some methods would be more efficient than others.

A good strategy for persuasion would also be showing that some strong belief conflicts with lesser ones, putting the person in the position of having to drop one of those, as an example making what people believe about God conflict with the Bible, forcing the believer to devaluate the bible in some way in order to preserve their concept of God.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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27-11-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(27-11-2016 03:29 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Through the many long years of being a conspiracy theorist, I have made many attempts to try and convince others that a conspiracy took place and yet it is like the words fall on deaf ears.

I am at my wits end right now, for I have failed so many people. Yet even now I try, and I am going to continue to try I have not necessarily tried on here so much because past experiences have shown me the futility of the approaches I've already used, using an approach that doesn't work regardless of how many times you use it, still won't work. So I ask, what would it take to convince you?

And before you say to bring evidence, that has never worked for me, not ever, no matter how much evidence was supplied. It never worked. Never. Not once. Not a single time, despite the multitude of evidence. There is nothing that will convince people (evidence wise) short of a confession or people getting caught in the act. Which is not how conspiracies work, conspiracies work because people have a cover story already planned out.

So don't say to bring evidence, that is the one answer I will not accept.

You can show a creationist fossils and evidence for the theory of evolution all day long, doesn't change their mind one bit. So do me a solid. Just assume hypothetically that you're being irrational and no amount of evidence would convince you. How would I get to you then?

A rule of thumb. Your conspiracy theory has to trump all other rational alternatives in explaining the evidence - it should fit the evidence and be able to predict novel things that the alternatives cannot. Subject it to the rigors of a skeptical interrogation.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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