What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
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29-11-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
Well I can see the conversation is already changing. But I used to be a person that believed in conspiracys. Nothing like fake moon landing, but I believed the government was covering up extraterrestrial visitation. Took me a while to see the flaws in my judgement.

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29-11-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(29-11-2016 12:30 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Well I can see the conversation is already changing. But I used to be a person that believed in conspiracys. Nothing like fake moon landing, but I believed the government was covering up extraterrestrial visitation. Took me a while to see the flaws in my judgement.

Extraterrestrials do exist though...

I'd like you to meet the first extraterrestrial we ever encountered.

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29-11-2016, 11:12 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(28-11-2016 11:11 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
Quote:Perhaps you need to reverse this question. What would it take to convince you that there is no conspiracy? Answer this honestly and you may find yourelf in an interesting place.

My good friend how do you think I became a conspiracy theorist? Its not like I didn't look at the opposing argument. The opposing argument just fell short.

You misunderstand my meaning. I don't want you to take a look at the opposing argument. It's obvious that it was insufficient for you.

Instead, tell me what would suffice. What evidence would you need to reject your conspiracy theory?

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29-11-2016, 11:14 PM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
When a conspiracy theory doesn't have more holes than the standard narrative it's meant to replace, I'll take it seriously.

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29-11-2016, 11:35 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 11:45 PM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(29-11-2016 11:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(28-11-2016 11:11 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  My good friend how do you think I became a conspiracy theorist? Its not like I didn't look at the opposing argument. The opposing argument just fell short.

You misunderstand my meaning. I don't want you to take a look at the opposing argument. It's obvious that it was insufficient for you.

Instead, tell me what would suffice. What evidence would you need to reject your conspiracy theory?

Replication.

Scientific theories hold fast because the results can be replicated. I expect the same from all conspiracy theories when it is a viable option.
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30-11-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(29-11-2016 11:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  You misunderstand my meaning. I don't want you to take a look at the opposing argument. It's obvious that it was insufficient for you.

Instead, tell me what would suffice. What evidence would you need to reject your conspiracy theory?

Replication.

Scientific theories hold fast because the results can be replicated. I expect the same from all conspiracy theories when it is a viable option.

Can you give us an example? I know you've declined before. But otherwise we're simply discussing why one would believe any statement. Give us an example of a conspiracy theory that you consider plausible, that satisfies your own criterion here quoted, and show how it satisfies it. You criterion IMO is vague as fuck. I can check that water is H20 because I can replicate the experiment. How the fuck are you gonna replicate a conspiracy? Let's shoot JFK again???

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-11-2016, 04:05 AM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2016 04:50 AM by Velvet.)
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(29-11-2016 11:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Replication.

Scientific theories hold fast because the results can be replicated. I expect the same from all conspiracy theories when it is a viable option.

So, how many WTC replicas and plane replica crashes you personally made in your backyard in order to satisfy the scientific criteria?

How have you possibly done to come to your conclusion on the "911 was an inside job"?

Seriously now Celestial, stay with me on this one... I'm from Brazil and this is what I know about 911:

-People talk, as I said on my other post, people can't deal with psychopathic secrets like those alone, they will seek support from others.

-USA is way too powerful to need to attack itself in order to make a pretext for invading random countries with economic or strategical purposes, I'm actually surprised they haven't invaded my country yet for reasons like "protecting the Amazon rare biodiversity from our irresponsible hands", no hoax needed just make up some bullshit reason.

-Countries that may be a menace to USA military sovereignty are basically only China and Russia at this point, and they don't give a fuck to anyone but themselves.

-If they would, idk why, but supposing they would make a hoax, there were better alternatives that didn't include killing a lot of rich people, this is key here, not the number of people, but they being rich and well conected people is what makes it unlikely.

So, from my seat, no way 911 was a hoax, I'm ok with "USA capitalized on the attack and turned into political interest", sure, but being an inside job is still too far-fetched.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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30-11-2016, 04:15 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 02:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Replication.

Scientific theories hold fast because the results can be replicated. I expect the same from all conspiracy theories when it is a viable option.

Can you give us an example? I know you've declined before. But otherwise we're simply discussing why one would believe any statement. Give us an example of a conspiracy theory that you consider plausible, that satisfies your own criterion here quoted, and show how it satisfies it. You criterion IMO is vague as fuck. I can check that water is H20 because I can replicate the experiment. How the fuck are you gonna replicate a conspiracy? Let's shoot JFK again???

Well, we could shoot a president again Tongue

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30-11-2016, 04:37 AM
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
I'm confused by the term conspiracy theory, I though a theory was the best current explanation for something.Drinking Beverage
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30-11-2016, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2016 07:57 AM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: What would it take to convince you of a conspiracy theory?
(30-11-2016 04:05 AM)Velvet Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:35 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Replication.

Scientific theories hold fast because the results can be replicated. I expect the same from all conspiracy theories when it is a viable option.

So, how many WTC replicas and plane replica crashes you personally made in your backyard in order to satisfy the scientific criteria?

How have you possibly done to come to your conclusion on the "911 was an inside job"?

Seriously now Celestial, stay with me on this one... I'm from Brazil and this is what I know about 911:

-People talk, as I said on my other post, people can't deal with psychopathic secrets like those alone, they will seek support from others.

-USA is way too powerful to need to attack itself in order to make a pretext for invading random countries with economic or strategical purposes, I'm actually surprised they haven't invaded my country yet for reasons like "protecting the Amazon rare biodiversity from our irresponsible hands", no hoax needed just make up some bullshit reason.

-Countries that may be a menace to USA military sovereignty are basically only China and Russia at this point, and they don't give a fuck to anyone but themselves.

-If they would, idk why, but supposing they would make a hoax, there were better alternatives that didn't include killing a lot of rich people, this is key here, not the number of people, but they being rich and well conected people is what makes it unlikely.

So, from my seat, no way 911 was a hoax, I'm ok with "USA capitalized on the attack and turned into political interest", sure, but being an inside job is still too far-fetched.

I don't need a 1 to 1 scale model of something here. But I do need to be shown how something is plausible, that it COULD be done.

I also need things like a motive, and things that would contradict the official story, from the official story. Just like an atheist might use things that contradict the bible that come from the bible itself.

Velvet, there is... one other thing I use, a critical piece of thought that should not be forgotten.

Who benefits?

How much has Al Qaeda benefited out of this attack? How much did the U.S. benefit out of the attack? And I don't mean the U.S. people, I mean the government and the fat cats. They've seem to have done pretty well. They now have a reason to interfere with the domestic and foreign policies of any nation that has a substantial Muslim population.

While Al Qaeda is just well, forgotten. Most of the resistance in Afghanistan has been the Taliban, and they're still fighting to this day against the government that was installed by the United States.

What other alternatives could have allowed them to gain so much support to invade two countries? And its not just public support that the United States has to get, its international solidarity. So that the soldiers in the military, don't feel like their brothers and sisters are dying for corporate greed, but rather for honor and protecting the country.

Operation Northwoods
The Lavon Affair
Operation Himmler

So yes, it happens, its been planned before, and it has been done before.

This thread has taught me one thing though, I don't think I either have the capacity or that it is my place to convince people of a conspiracy. People who would believe in a conspiracy wouldn't need my help as they'd already be on the hunt, and people who wouldn't believe in a conspiracy by now probably won't, they've probably already been exposed to the things I would expose and still deny so. There's not really any point for me to try and convince anyone I suppose.

Would be like mining a mile deep gold mine with nothing but firecrackers.

(30-11-2016 02:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  Can you give us an example? I know you've declined before. But otherwise we're simply discussing why one would believe any statement. Give us an example of a conspiracy theory that you consider plausible, that satisfies your own criterion here quoted, and show how it satisfies it. You criterion IMO is vague as fuck. I can check that water is H20 because I can replicate the experiment. How the fuck are you gonna replicate a conspiracy? Let's shoot JFK again???

You could set up the conditions in which JFK was shot if you wanted to. The angles and all that, many people have sought to replicate such conditions.

And I've declined before, and I will decline again, I no longer believe it is my place. Or do you think these threads I've been making were just for show? They're for me just as much as they were for you.
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