"What would it take?"
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20-08-2012, 02:22 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2012 02:26 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: "What would it take?"
What would it take to convince you there was a god?



If you could pray to it and get answers to things like this and be able to show us how it reached those conclusions with ease.

The way it interacted with the universe would be measurable and detectible in some kind of way.

It would be able to describe it's own nature with out contradicting itself.
etc

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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20-08-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: "What would it take?"
(18-08-2012 09:46 PM)Near Wrote:  Even if you could convince me that a god existed, that DOESN'T mean that I would worship that god, and in fact, every god that I have heard of/read about sounds to me to be quite immoral, and not worthy of worship. So while i could possibly be convinced that a god existed, in all likelihood I would never worship that god (or gods if it came down to it).
I haven't heard many people say this, but I have also thought it. In fact, in one discussion that I had with a theist I took it a step further. I basically said, since it is logically impossible for an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent being to exist in the face of many things we can observe, then if there is any god that exists, he/she/it must be less than perfect. That then opens the door to a huge range of possibilities including it could be that the only "god" out there is really the devil. And that just might explain why he hides...

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20-08-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: "What would it take?"
(19-08-2012 01:18 PM)Near Wrote:  Who was it that said something along the lines of "After the first 10,000 years eternal bliss starts to get a bit monotonous." It would be the same thing for eternal torture wouldn't it? Unless the god was somehow able to continuously ramp up the bliss or torture ad infinitum, it would all get to be pretty dull, pretty quickly.

Maybe... and maybe not. I've had sex plenty of times, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it any less than I ever did. Can you really get tired of bliss? And if we're going to do a thought experiment where the hypothetical heaven is real, then one would have to assume that eternal bliss lives up to the "eternal" bit.

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20-08-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: "What would it take?"
(20-08-2012 04:23 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(19-08-2012 01:18 PM)Near Wrote:  Who was it that said something along the lines of "After the first 10,000 years eternal bliss starts to get a bit monotonous." It would be the same thing for eternal torture wouldn't it? Unless the god was somehow able to continuously ramp up the bliss or torture ad infinitum, it would all get to be pretty dull, pretty quickly.

Maybe... and maybe not. I've had sex plenty of times, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it any less than I ever did. Can you really get tired of bliss? And if we're going to do a thought experiment where the hypothetical heaven is real, then one would have to assume that eternal bliss lives up to the "eternal" bit.

^This, and when you say, "after the first 10,000 years..." you're using a human framework of time. The Christian believes eternity is not an infinite passage of time, but rather, completely outside our understanding of time, not the Timeless Deity's.

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20-08-2012, 08:24 PM
RE: "What would it take?"
(20-08-2012 04:27 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 04:23 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Maybe... and maybe not. I've had sex plenty of times, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it any less than I ever did. Can you really get tired of bliss? And if we're going to do a thought experiment where the hypothetical heaven is real, then one would have to assume that eternal bliss lives up to the "eternal" bit.

^This, and when you say, "after the first 10,000 years..." you're using a human framework of time. The Christian believes eternity is not an infinite passage of time, but rather, completely outside our understanding of time, not the Timeless Deity's.

Those are both great points that I hadn't really considered before. But it seems to me that even if you couldn't perceive the passage of time, I can as a human perceive time, and if that were to be taken away from me, I would no longer be the same being. That would mean that it wasn't me (as I perceive myself) that was in heaven, but a copy, that I feel would be less than me, because it would be missing something that I have.

As for the eternal bliss part, I suppose maybe it was the way that I was brought up, but I was always told stories of people eternally singing praises to "God", which at the time sounded like the shittiest thing, because at the time when I was told this I didn't enjoy singing at all. I don't mind a bit of singing these days, but it still sounds incredibly tedious to be singing praises to a deity forever, even if I couldn't perceive the passage of time. If it sounds terrible to me now, if I was changed to like it in some afterlife, it goes back to me not really being me, because my consciousness would have been tampered with.

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20-08-2012, 10:00 PM
"What would it take?"
(20-08-2012 08:24 PM)Near Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 04:27 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  ^This, and when you say, "after the first 10,000 years..." you're using a human framework of time. The Christian believes eternity is not an infinite passage of time, but rather, completely outside our understanding of time, not the Timeless Deity's.

Those are both great points that I hadn't really considered before. But it seems to me that even if you couldn't perceive the passage of time, I can as a human perceive time, and if that were to be taken away from me, I would no longer be the same being. That would mean that it wasn't me (as I perceive myself) that was in heaven, but a copy, that I feel would be less than me, because it would be missing something that I have.

As for the eternal bliss part, I suppose maybe it was the way that I was brought up, but I was always told stories of people eternally singing praises to "God", which at the time sounded like the shittiest thing, because at the time when I was told this I didn't enjoy singing at all. I don't mind a bit of singing these days, but it still sounds incredibly tedious to be singing praises to a deity forever, even if I couldn't perceive the passage of time. If it sounds terrible to me now, if I was changed to like it in some afterlife, it goes back to me not really being me, because my consciousness would have been tampered with.

Well yeah, the whole thing is imaginary, that's why you have a hard time understanding it. Tongue

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21-08-2012, 06:42 AM
RE: "What would it take?"
Reality is electrostatic repulsion and probability fields. You can't convince me of nothing other than I love my Gwynnies. And that only exists because I convinced myself. Big Grin

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31-08-2012, 12:24 AM
RE: "What would it take?"
For me it would take an undeniable face to face chat with this god. Or better yet, the next time one of these self-serving piece of shit politicians references god and says that god told them to do something the heavens open up, a big hand comes down, bitch slaps them and says "Enough.". I told you no such things. That might get me to believe that there is something more powerful out there than humans, but I doubt I could ever worship such a being if even half of what is in the bible is true.
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31-08-2012, 02:01 AM
RE: "What would it take?"
Simple.
Hi Marco, here i am, its me, you know, god.
And by the way, i made all kinda stuff her like this... and in an blick of an eye all my death familie-members and long lost fellows surrounding me.

Hm, i have an thought in mind, never heard that someone mentioned it.
God must be an atheist, because for him, there is no god, am i right?

No, i never will be convinced that god exists, because i am a human beeing and i like it to have more question than aswers, but if it comes to the answers i prefere to figured out by myself or by an fellow human with more brainpower.
The god-solution is a none-solution that solves nothing but themself.

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